The Cabbage Coins Podcast

Tony Gryckiewicz: 00:00

Hello folks. Welcome back to the CABG Coins Podcast. My name is Tony Grokevich. I am the owner of CABG Coins. And today I am joined by Vera Liu of the classical numismatic group.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 00:13

And Vera, welcome to the CABG Coins podcast. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Vera Liu: 00:19

Hello, everyone. My name is Vera. Thank you for Tony inviting me to join this podcast. I'm very excited to share something about Ancient Coin, World Coin, and also our upcoming CNG Feature Auction one hundred thirty. Right now, I'm working for CNG, the classical numismatic group auction firm, and I am the consignment manager of the firm.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 00:43

Awesome. And I understand you guys have a auction coming up on September. Yes. Why don't you tell us real briefly? I know we're going to look at some stuff later, but just tell us real briefly about the upcoming auction.

Vera Liu: 00:56

Yeah. For we are very excited about this upcoming auction, and there will be eight thirty seven lots in the session, and it will cover from the ancient coins from the Celtic, ancient Greek, Roman Republic, Roman Imperial, all way adds up to the modern days, world coins. So and also, got some US coins and US Silver Bucks in this auction as well. There are so many interesting stuff. And if you have time, I really encourage you to go to our website, cngcoins.com, to take a look.

Vera Liu: 01:35

I don't promote I don't want to promote too much, but as a collector, you may want to take a look.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:41

Yeah. Yeah. Promote away. Promote. Promote.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:44

That's that's fine. Yeah. The other thing you can do is you can come visit me in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, because CNG CNG is headquartered and located here in Lancaster, PA, which is where I live.

Vera Liu: 01:56

That's right.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:57

So, yeah, so I will take you out to go get some whoopee pies and you can come to view the lots with me if you so choose folks out there. But anyways, so I want to get into some questions I have for you about your expertise and background. We're going to talk today about ancient coins folks. So we've covered a lot on U. Coins so far.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 02:19

I have some upcoming podcasts on world coins specifically. And today we're going to talk a lot about ancient coins. And we're also going to, I think we're going look at a couple world coins as well during, during this episode, but really excited about it. Let's just go ahead and jump in. How did you get started working with consignments and auctions at CNG?

Vera Liu: 02:41

Well, you know, I have been a collector for many years, and I just feel Well, I'm in this industry forever. And I joined CNG in 2023. Before joining CNG, worked for an auction firm, its name is Arai and Larry Goldberg, and for about three years. And prior to that, I was a part time dealer, and I had a background in marketing. So I just enjoy sharing my experience, collecting experience, and talking to the collectors, and also occasionally gave me my suggestion and idea about the value, about the market to the other collectors.

Vera Liu: 03:28

So, I always have my own client base. And also, I also ran a social media account for myself. So when I joined CNG, I was given this great opportunity and privilege to interact with CNG's customers and also CNG's consignors, of course, using my experience and the knowledge, and it just becomes a natural thing for me.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 03:56

So what excites you personally about ancient coins and world coins? You obviously were a collector for very long. What's exciting about it to you?

Vera Liu: 04:09

This is actually a fairly difficult question to answer. To me, there's truly not that much difference between US, world, or ancient coins. You know, for all For you guys who collected US coins, there's probably no surprise that many of the most beautiful American coins from the early twentieth century, what or we call the time American Renaissance, such as working on Liberty Paths, Mercury Dimes, standing Liberty Quarters, they all share very similar engraving techniques and artistic language as seen on some other European coins, especially French coins of that same period. So and all these coins have their root for the elements seen on ancient Greek and also ancient Roman coins. So coins are some kind in some way all related regardless of when and where they are from.

Vera Liu: 05:20

That's my opinion. So, yeah, this is my understanding of the numismatic art. If you hold only one coin, whatever the coin is, it will never be as impressive as Mona Lisa, the really true masterpiece of art. But if you put a series of coins from different time period and different countries together, you will be able to create something significant. So

Tony Gryckiewicz: 05:51

Interesting.

Vera Liu: 05:52

Yeah. It's like last week, I was looking at some of my recent purchase. Recently, I bought Paonia Tetragram, an ancient coin, a couple of Dutch Jatons related to the year eighty years war. And I also have a Wells Fargo dollar, the so called dollar. So Yeah.

Vera Liu: 06:20

Yeah. If you put them together, it's like gathering a set of paintings about how to depict the conflicts on a small piece of metal in ancient time, in later Renaissance time, and also in the modern time. Or you can also think about the Tyrant collection. I'm also working for the Tyrant collection. So in that collection, each civilization is presented by the coins of its rulers through the history.

Vera Liu: 06:53

So in this way, actually, the collection as a whole becomes a piece of art. Interesting. Yeah. That's why I always tell my friends coin collecting are paintings. Each coin is a color just as just as the pinters will use colors to paint a painting, and you are using your coin to build your own artwork.

Vera Liu: 07:22

So you can express yourself from the collection. And so when I collect coins, I don't think if they are ancient or US coins. I just picked the coins I can use to put into my collection. And one day, my collection will become my artwork. So that's my thought.

Vera Liu: 07:45

Hope this

Tony Gryckiewicz: 07:45

is not

Vera Liu: 07:46

too complicate too complicated. Was

Tony Gryckiewicz: 07:53

a very in-depth and very a bit complex, and I think that's a great fantastic and great answer. I mean, there's a very deep tie between art and coins and the people who collect coins. They're often drawn to the artistry of the coins and how they were made and then what they end up looking like with U. Coins. A lot of them look the same for a particular series like Mercury Dimes, but then you have an example with a very vibrant, intense color and toning on it.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 08:21

And then that artistry and that beauty kind of comes out and attracts some people, you know, to the coins. Something you had stated, and I just want to clarify what you mentioned, which was about the American Renaissance. And what we're referring to there folks is there was a period when President Theodore Roosevelt decided to redesign American coinage. He believed that, or he thought that the kind of the, what we call the, the barber halves and barber quarters and barber dimes, they were all kind of very plain and did not really emphasize as much kind of the artistry aspect, especially compared to old coins, ancient coins, Greek and Roman coins that has so much more of a flare and interest and there was more relief to the coin. So he called for the redesign of almost all of, pretty much all of the series of US coins.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 09:09

And that is one of the reasons why we have the $20 high relief that was designed to create all of this relief in the image of Lady Liberty because they were trying to kind of mimic and go back to the time of ancient coins, Greek coins with their high relief designs like we're gonna look at here today with some Athenian owls. Yeah. The, that the, the reverse of the $10 the Eagle is actually very similar to an ancient coin. Don't Yeah. Know off the

Vera Liu: 09:39

Ptolemy the first of Egypt.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 09:42

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll try to put an image of the of one of those flashed on the screen and compare the reverse of the the $10 eagle with that one. You guys can see that.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 09:55

But everything from the Mercury Dime to the Walking Liberty half dollar, all of this was done in order to bring beauty and artistry back into our coinage and inspire the American people. And I thought that was, you know, it's very beautiful thing. What are some So in terms of collecting ancient coins, what are some misconceptions you often see from newcomers?

Vera Liu: 10:23

First of all, you have to define the newcomers. Are two types The newcomers who collect other coins, except for insurance. And the newcomers are completely new to the hobby. They are quite different. So for the people who are previous, like US or world coin collectors, I often see them being too picky.

Vera Liu: 10:50

So especially for the condition, they tend to apply the modern coins grading scales onto the ancient coins. And sometimes that can be very wrong. So if you collect The US coins, you will have very little tolerance for cleaned coins or coins with some minor problems. Actually, or at least traditionally speaking, when it comes to the ancient coins, the style and the strike are the two most important factors. Their services and the metal quality are also very important, but in many cases, not as important as the style and the strike.

Vera Liu: 11:31

So in other words, even if an ancient coin is problem free, no trace of cleaning, good luster, but it has a very flat strike or off center strike, ugly style, it still can be considered a low end example, even if it looks like it will get a really high grade. Yeah. So But or in some cases, if a coin has some minor problems, praises of hairlines or some light deposits, even some minor scratches. But the strike was beautiful, fine style dyes, sharp details, and well centered. It it still can be considered as a choice example for the type.

Vera Liu: 12:23

So as for the other type, so I think this is a misconception I often see from the first type of newcomers. And as for the other type of newcomers who know nothing about coins or just very new to the coin collecting, this hobby, they usually each come with their own unique misconceptions. I had people come to me and ask me, how can this 2,000 year old coin look like so new? Like this. You know, things like that.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 13:02

Common question. It's a very

Vera Liu: 13:03

common Yeah. Yeah. And so but there is another but there is indeed one misconception I've seen from multiple new collectors. They always come and ask me which coin has great potential. In other words, which coin will bring will go up the most in value in future.

Vera Liu: 13:30

Yeah. Yeah. So I always explain to them that the coin collecting is a collecting hobby. You are trying to become a successful, I will say, investor instead of a collector, you should do it like you invest in a portfolio. There's no collector who becomes successful only because he has one super rare and significant coin.

Vera Liu: 14:02

But regardless of your purpose of collecting, you will always need a sizable, like, coin collection and to achieve your collecting goal or investing goal. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 14:17

Yeah. So are great misperceptions and those are exactly misconceptions. And those are the things that I would That's the stuff that I hear about all the time, especially the why are the why is this coin looking so new? It's like 2,000 years old. So to answer the way the way I typically answer that question is I explain a little bit about the history of money to people.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 14:41

And when you have, let's say a ruler like Alexander the Great, and Alexander the Great has this large moving army that goes through the plains of Eurasia or whatever. And they take over a particular town. And what's important to Alexander is feeding and clothing and providing provisions to all of his troops and all of his soldiers. So basically what they do is they give the soldiers coins in the image of Alexander or whatever. They issue payment or salary, if you will, to the soldiers and then tell them to go into town and use this to go buy your food or your provisions or your clothing and so forth.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 15:22

And then from those people within the town, those people have to pay their taxes with the exact same coins. And so this created a monetary system, but at the time there was no banks. So what did people do? They put them away into clay jars and they buried them or they put away all of the coins that they had taken in and that they had earned as part of, you know, whatever their business and whatnot. And so a lot of these coins come from hoards that are found later on centuries later that were really never circulated at all.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 15:54

And they did not, have any real problems and environmental damage or whatever. They were just kind of in large jars and clays, pots kind of going and like buried. So, yeah, of course, why wouldn't it look like it was almost brand new? How so how much of my story did I get right?

Vera Liu: 16:12

No. Not. I wrong. Your story is about, like, 80% true because back then, especially in the ancient time, and it's more when people are trading, were trading, actually they will use object to trade object instead of So we are using for money, most of the money, especially ancient coins, they will use them for really big payment or just value storage. Just as you mentioned, put into a jar and try to there's no trusted bank maybe back then, so they have to put everything underground to try to keep the value.

Vera Liu: 16:48

But luckily for us, like, in the future time, can dig out that and get access to them with very original condition of the coins. So yeah. But occasionally, you will encounter some coin scout problems because the soil get all kinds of chemical elements. It will affect the coins. It really depends on the storage environment of that horde or that's jar.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 17:21

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 17:24

Yeah. Yeah. That's also just back on that topic about, misconceptions again, you know, the, the thing that I hear a lot and that I thought too, but I hear a lot from my, all my friends that, that are mostly U. S. Coin collectors is such an importance on grade, such an importance on their thinking, you know, MS66 is better than MS65.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 17:46

And, you know, those things is what matters on The US coin side. But when it comes to ancient coins, you can have a fairly lower grade example, in terms of the grade, but it can command a much higher price just because of the quality of the style, the dyes that were used. And so what we're talking about is the person who crafted the dyes, who actually carved the dyes by hand, this was an artist. So you would obviously pay a whole lot more for a work of art from Picasso than somebody like me if I decided to paint a cubist, you know, a rendition of a lady with a guitar or whatever. So you want Picasso's version of that.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 18:29

You want Monet or you want some other, you know, Leonardo da Vinci. You want something from that artist. And so it's very similar. It's like you find an ancient coin with fine style and now you are purchasing a piece of art from that artist who made that die that struck that coin. And then the coin was struck so well.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 18:50

And those are, you know, other things. So it's very, very different from US coins. It's almost almost opposite on almost every a lot of things, it seems.

Vera Liu: 18:59

Yeah. Yeah. And then the similarity about the styles. I mean, why find style can bring so much money, especially you just mentioned art is one part of that. The other part is, like, human human being, they just like beautiful stuffs.

Vera Liu: 19:18

And a a with really fun style, it it will create appealing to most of collectors. So the comp competition will be much more intensive compared with Yeah. Less appealing coins. So I think that's something similar for or similarity in coin collecting in general. So yeah.

Vera Liu: 19:40

Besides the

Tony Gryckiewicz: 19:40

art What is what is this concept of good metal? So I understand that some you know, I've been told I remember when I was shopping for ancients that, you know, the metal metal quality of this coin is really high. You know? I I didn't really understand what exactly that means. Could you explain a little bit of what that means?

Vera Liu: 20:00

Good metal is very important. So that's there is a very special definition or a special term in ancient coin about metal is crystallization. Well, I have multiple coins crystallized inside and the crack during the shipping. It's very frustrating. So that's why good metal is very important.

Vera Liu: 20:29

Crystallization is often in the silver coins where the internal structure breaks down into crystals, causing the coin to become very fragile and make coins vulnerable to damage under stress or mishandling. So this occurs initially over centuries in the high purity silver and make the the silver coin into a clay like interior and a porous, like, in inside. But it's a little bit different from no. It's quite different from the from the corrosion, but it's a very important thing for the metal quality. So this is another reason if you have to buy coins, you have to buy coins from the trusted dealers and the companies, because it's harder to tell exact metal quality from the photos.

Vera Liu: 21:25

Everything happens inside. So and many people cannot tell even holding the coins. So you need to, like, buy from either reliable or experienced dealers or just go to the company who can guarantee what you bought and write the right description about metals. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 21:46

Yeah. Yeah. It's very good. And and, I I think this is a fantastic time for us to start looking at some coins together from the upcoming CNG auction, because I know we have a number of them to get into and to talk about. Actually, before we get into into the auction, I want to take a look at these two examples because I think this will help to drive home what we've talking about with regard to the style of the coin.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 22:12

So what we have here is two tetradramas from Lysimachus, which was one of, I believe the the people who, one of the generals of Alexander.

Vera Liu: 22:23

Yeah, that's right.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 22:24

Okay. Yeah. One of the generals of Alexander, he took over Alexander's empire and Slysimachus is known at least in the ancient coins for me is that he produced, or his area has produced really, really nice, strong eye appeal tetradromes like this one that we have here. But this is actually good comparison because this was, the sale prices was considerably less than the next example, right?

Vera Liu: 22:50

Yeah. So both of these two coins are act were auctioned auctioned in 2021 Triton 24. I believe that's the sale. Those two coins came out from. And these two coins, the first one, I think, realized about 4,000 something for the hammer price, and the second one actually realized 30,000 for the hammer price.

Vera Liu: 23:20

Yeah. So that's but 2021 is a special period. At that time, this type was really popular among the collectors. And, you know, trend is a cycle. Sometimes this coin this type will become super popular at a time and then Yeah.

Vera Liu: 23:39

May go down a little bit later time. So 2021 will be the peak time for the time of the less much Metro's tetradome for sure. And during that peak time, everyone wants to get the best looking one, the finest, the the perfect one.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 23:56

This one right here.

Vera Liu: 23:57

Yeah. So that's the one. And if you look into different look into the details, Sometimes some collectors let me to, like, explain what's the difference between the fine styles and Sure.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 24:12

Sure. Please.

Vera Liu: 24:13

Styles. But it's very hard because it's very hard. But if you look at the pictures, actually, you will get a visual idea. They just look quite different. The details are sharper, and the the poultry is more balanced in general.

Vera Liu: 24:31

Yeah. And, also, you can just a few you can see even the hair, I mean, all all the details, the veins, and the the lion hand on the on the shield. Everything is very clear. And also yeah. Yeah.

Vera Liu: 24:48

The the hair of the lion also very obvious. And so the sharp details and also from the balance of the the poultry, and it looks

Tony Gryckiewicz: 25:01

much The balance of the what?

Vera Liu: 25:04

The poetry. I mean, the whole

Tony Gryckiewicz: 25:05

What's that?

Vera Liu: 25:06

The poetry. The the the opposite

Tony Gryckiewicz: 25:08

Oh, the portrait. The oh, the portrait.

Vera Liu: 25:10

The artistic balance of the portrait. And Okay. I think from an outsider, the first thought feeling will be the person on this coin looks a little bit or much more handsome than the other coins. Like, that's a

Tony Gryckiewicz: 25:27

very Well,

Vera Liu: 25:28

there's a

Tony Gryckiewicz: 25:28

couple things. I mean, we only have one actual image of Alexander the Great that's from that cave painting or or whatever. And as I can think about it, this portrait looks a lot like that one. Like this portrait is very from the nose, the shape of the nose and overall just to general features, this looks a lot actually like Alexander. And I would say this one, I mean, is not bad.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 25:56

This is not horrible, but it's definitely not of the same quality as the other one. And if we look at the who is it this is Athena? Is this a who is this?

Vera Liu: 26:06

Athena. That's right. Athena. Athena. Okay.

Vera Liu: 26:08

Yeah. And so so, actually, sometimes I just I feel very hard to explain what is fan style, what's the difference, how can you define. But I think for the just a human being has some new mutual Yeah. Yeah. Appreciation for the beauty.

Vera Liu: 26:28

So when you look at coin and at your especially on your hand, you will get it all at once. It seems I like that one a little bit more. So that's why Sure. The competition is so intensive was so intensive back then for this coin because some other collectors also found the same interest about this coin, and they just get attracted by this coin.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 26:55

Really nice. I'm gonna show off here just for a second. This is this right here. Studied in

Vera Liu: 26:59

ancient Greece.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 27:01

Basileos, Lysimachus. Yeah. And the interesting thing is this this is the genitive form of the of the word Basileos, king. So it means of, of the king is the ownership or is possession is the possessive is the genitive. So anyways, so

Vera Liu: 27:21

are you also collecting ancient coins?

Tony Gryckiewicz: 27:23

Me personally, I have owned a few ancient coins and I have loved them. The last coin that I had in my possession was an owl, an Athenian owl, which we'll show here just the next thing we're going to take a look at. And I really

Vera Liu: 27:38

love what that's iconic type.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 27:43

Yeah. Yeah. It's like the one, you know, actually I'm probably going to flash some images here. And I recently gave this as a gift to my, my brother and my, my sister-in-law as a, as a, a, as a present from me. Cause I wanted to keep it, keep the coin in our family as opposed to supposed to selling it.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 28:01

So anyways, cause it's really beautiful. I love the, the, the, the coin overall, but anyways, I think guys we'll move, we'll move on. So let me stop this. All right. Okay.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 28:13

So this is one of the first lots that we're going to take a look at the upcoming auction. The feature auction one hundred thirty, the September live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. But so what we have here is an Athenian owl. This is basically a great iconic type, Athens Athenian owl tetradrome. What can you tell us about this one?

Vera Liu: 28:34

So this is I think this is the most famous type of ancient coin, and you can always see something about the the the image of this coin. And on the obverse, that is the head of the Athena. And Athena actually is the patron goddess of the city, Athens. And on the rivers, of course, that's the Awe. And also the olive sprig on the left corner and crescent moon.

Vera Liu: 29:05

And the legend on the right, the legend is alpha theta eta, just a short for of the Athenians, just as you mentioned about the of the of the. So Yeah. The Athens Oil Tetradrome is so iconic because it was the first truly international currency, I would say. So besides the high relief, the artistic beauty of the coin, and also the historical power of the coin, it prevents the Athens empire actually use this money and get influence use this money to get influence far beyond its territory and also during the time. So back then, Athens had access to the rich silver mines, which allowed them to strike off in a very large quantity.

Vera Liu: 30:08

That's why we can see so many Athenian oints nowadays. This design lasted for a couple centuries with only minor changes. If you go back to the auction, this is lot 114. If you go back to follow the numerical order of the auction, maybe yeah. So this is 114.

Vera Liu: 30:36

You will see different styles of the ethylene oils.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 30:41

Okay. Yeah. We actually have a number of them here. So Yeah. Cool.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 30:44

This is one of the archaic types. Right?

Vera Liu: 30:47

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. The early style.

Vera Liu: 30:50

So at the very beginning, you can see it carries the same design. Athena on the obverse or on the reverse and also a little bit olive sprig on the left corner of the coins. So this design has been used for many centuries with only minor changes from the style, from the archaic style art to the classical style art. Then if you move to the later time, Roman time, if you go back, you can see the new style. I think not

Tony Gryckiewicz: 31:31

all. Yeah. The I one that we were looking at was one fourteen here. This is nearly full crust. I do want you to mention something about the importance of the, the, the crest and the helmet here.

Vera Liu: 31:45

Yeah. That's right.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 31:46

This bring a lot more money.

Vera Liu: 31:48

Yeah. We talk about how important the the strike to the ancient coins, and I think this is one of the example. And, also, that's why the auction from Eurylo will highlight this is almost the full crest of the Athena Yeah. Helmet. And on the top of the helmet, you will see some some, how to describe that, like, hairdoking thing, this this part.

Vera Liu: 32:16

So

Tony Gryckiewicz: 32:17

The the plumes or the the the Yeah. Yeah. The plumes of okay. Of the the the crest. Yeah.

Vera Liu: 32:24

Yeah. Yeah. That's very important because most of the coins of this type, if you go back to other loss, you will see that part might be missing. So Mhmm. You want to get a complete strike of the type.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 32:38

Yeah. For example I mean, this this is an example where we do not have almost any of the crest at all. Got a overall nice image. I I do like the image of of of Athena. I think this is pretty well crafted, but the strike here is the is the key is there's probably the the crest of the helmet is on the die, of course, but you're not getting it because of how the So the strike

Vera Liu: 33:02

took is a kind of small small. Yeah. And also when every ancient coin is different because it has to be hand strike struck. So Yeah. They will place the die in different location.

Vera Liu: 33:17

It will cause different looking of the coins. And this coin actually got a very special looking of the awl if you take a second look at the awl of this lot. Mhmm. It looks a little bit cuter and a smaller a little bit smaller eyes and special and unique type of the all. I know some collectors, they will collect Athena or tetra drum by different styles.

Vera Liu: 33:44

And and now they they will not only satisfied with only have one all tetra jump, but more. And this will be a very good cool to collect it to to collect this type.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 34:00

Yeah. Now I noticed here it says good VF. These coins that you guys sell, these are are are raw coins. Right? These are not this

Vera Liu: 34:11

Maybe we have some in holders.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 34:13

You have some with slabs, but in general, do the collectors prefer the raw coin?

Vera Liu: 34:21

I wouldn't say in general, but I think grading ancient coins is a quite new thing to the collectors. So there are two types of collectors. Some can accept the concept and idea pretty quick, but some may stick to the old standard of greeting. So so I wanna say which one is better, which one is not right. But in the meantime, actually, when we look at right now, NGC is kind of dominant in ancient coin grading, this field.

Vera Liu: 35:01

And when we look at what they they they set up a new grading skills or standard for the ancient coins.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 35:10

Yeah.

Vera Liu: 35:10

And then sometimes sometimes I just feel it cannot fully fully describe the coin.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 35:20

Describe and capture.

Vera Liu: 35:21

Yeah. Yeah. Describe or capture the coin. So so I think it's still something in the progress. I wouldn't encourage you to buy the grade.

Vera Liu: 35:32

I know for US coins, one grade will be quite different on the price. Yeah. Even more grade more or less will will be quite different on the price. But for the ancient coins, I would encourage you, suggest you to, if you have chance to take a look at the coins on hand, please go ahead and to view the coins, view the loss to see whether you like it and then to set up the the grading skills or the condition standards for yourself first, then try to judge about whether this this coin face your standard or something you want. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 36:12

Yeah. So I know you want to We want to talk a bit about metals and electrum specifically. So I'm going to go and pull up one of the electrum lots, or we're going to move over to that. And I think we were going to get started talking about from the beginning of coinage. So this right here.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 36:33

So can you explain what is electrum for people who don't know?

Vera Liu: 36:38

Yeah. Electrum is a very unique metal, I think, in ancient coins. It is a naturally occurring alloy of gold mix of the gold and silver. So the first known metal coins made were of electron dating back to the end of, I see, seventh century or the beginning of the sixth century BC. So if you look at this lot, this is lot 164.

Vera Liu: 37:10

Correct. Yeah. So if you look at this lot, this lot, this coin was minted in Ionia and and struck around June to June. So and back then, people, they just want to get a to get coin coin and electron, and you can naturally find them in the river. And so it becomes the the best metal for the money.

Vera Liu: 37:42

I think this is very fascinating because at the very beginning, they only want to use some good metal or precious metal as the money or as the exchange currency. And then move to a later stage. You can see from this coin, the obverse is plain. Basically, you can see nothing and rough surfaces because Yeah. Back then, people the ancient people, they didn't think that much, like, should I put something to show where this was minted?

Vera Liu: 38:21

Or yeah. Or the power or propaganda nowadays? No. Actually, they only want to keep make sure the weight and the quality of the metal. And so there's nothing of in the beginning of the coinage, there's not much content on the coin.

Vera Liu: 38:40

But if you go back and to see some later examples of electronic coin electron coins.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 38:52

Yeah.

Vera Liu: 38:53

And they they look quite different and more like nowadays coins. It has animals, maybe some states some city ancient Greek cities states are quite famous for certain kind of animals or the city state seal and or some mystery

Tony Gryckiewicz: 39:14

mysterious

Vera Liu: 39:16

animals. This.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 39:18

Yeah. So we have a a lion, but this is like a a this kind of a mythical animal? A winged Yeah.

Vera Liu: 39:25

We don't know much about the a story about this or legend about this mysterious animal, but it looks quite unique. Ancient Greek people borrow this kind of combine or combination animal from the Egypt. So that's that's another topic, but it's just to add some unique flavor if you are collecting ancient coins. When you see something like this, you yeah. Yeah.

Vera Liu: 39:59

And

Tony Gryckiewicz: 40:00

Go ahead. Go ahead.

Vera Liu: 40:02

Yeah. So from from the Electrum session, actually, you will you will find at the very beginning, there's nothing on the coin and the people to try to get more content on the coin. And also and or the city seal, for example, the lot 1 71.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 40:25

1 71. Let me just type that in.

Vera Liu: 40:27

Yeah. Kings of the Lydia and Croesus with the lion and the sun's sun. Yeah. Actually, that's the city symbol of the city Sardis where it was So they tried to put down more local information and more power pro propaganda thing on the coin.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 40:53

Okay.

Vera Liu: 40:54

Yeah. So it's more like that.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 40:56

Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. You know, the value of money is comes really from the ability to eliminate the need for barter.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 41:07

Barter is trade. Right? And when you trade stuff, both people have to want what each other has. Money eliminates that. Money allows you to basically get exactly what you want because you are trading something that everybody wants, which you know, gold.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 41:25

I wanted to talk about this one here. This is one of the exceptional pieces of the auction. So this is from Sicily, Syracuse, Sicily. Tell us a little bit about this particular example. This lot.

Vera Liu: 41:40

Yeah. When you think about the Sicily, especially the city of Syracuse, they are famous for you know some of ancient coin coins. So, you know, actually, they are famous for another type, has a rasusa on the obverse and with dolphin around and the decadrums and the tetradrum, all the silver and the gold coins. And but this coin is very special because this coin actually is a electron coins. And back then, there there is a history background because back then, actually, they they were like fighting against of Carthage and Carthage, they use a lot of electron to make coins.

Vera Liu: 42:27

So in order to compete with them or get the connection with them, interact with them, And Sicily made this coin with electron, this material. And electron is, just as I mentioned, it's a mix with silver and gold. It's a alloy. So this metal actually is very hard, which means it will make it very difficult to strike a coin like this. This, like, detail this detailed, this beautiful, this artistic.

Vera Liu: 43:06

It will Sure. Put the actual efforts just like the ultra high relief for for the 19 o seven double eagle, it it needs about nine times of strike to make it to get ultra high. For the electron coins, if you want to make a coin this big and also this beautiful, you have to strike more times compared with when you were using silver or golden metal. Yeah. So which means this is very hard to make a coin look like make it even even rarer.

Vera Liu: 43:45

Yeah. So

Tony Gryckiewicz: 43:45

they struck this coin multiple times?

Vera Liu: 43:48

For sure. For sure.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 43:50

Wow. And and I'm surprised that the the the design is not full of, like, doubling or or a lot of problems.

Vera Liu: 43:58

It's Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. They got their techniques about this.

Vera Liu: 44:05

And just like the ultra high relief ultra high relief double eagle, you won't see any, like, double strike on it as well, and they they have your way. But it's not very easy to to make a coin, especially in electron, this material, to look like this. We know Yeah. And the in the other words, actually, because the metal is super hard, and it will be much easy to to keep this coin look like this. So Okay.

Vera Liu: 44:39

It will keep this stunning looking for a really long time as well.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 44:45

Yeah. I I and and the other thing that stands out to me is it's it's rare to find a coin where both the obverse and the reverse are both somebody's portrait.

Vera Liu: 44:54

Yeah. That's true.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 44:55

Is anything yeah. Yeah. It is pretty, I guess, unusual. But is there any significance here to this? Or do you know who's on the who's on both sides?

Vera Liu: 45:07

Is there any significance? On the Albus, the left side is Apollo. And Okay. Yeah. And the reverse is the Artemis.

Vera Liu: 45:18

So Okay. Yeah. They they got quite they got their signature dress, I mean, for the Apollo, the race, and also for the Artemis, the the bow back in the in the back of the neck. Yeah. That part.

Vera Liu: 45:40

So

Tony Gryckiewicz: 45:40

The bow. What? Bow. The bow. The bow.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 45:43

Okay. Yeah. Oh, this bow right here.

Vera Liu: 45:45

Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 45:46

Yeah. They both have the bow. Okay. And this is Artemis. So Apollo was the god of, like speed or the the sun?

Vera Liu: 45:57

Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 45:58

Okay. And Artemis was what?

Vera Liu: 46:01

Artemis, you can consider as moon.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 46:05

As the moon. Okay. Alright. Well, now this this makes sense here, folks. We got the sun and we got the moon, and they put them on both sides of the coin because it's the sun and it's the moon.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 46:16

You know? They're both up in the sky there, different times of day. So okay. That makes a lot of sense. That makes makes makes some sense about what they were trying to do here with this this particular coin.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 46:26

I like it.

Vera Liu: 46:27

Yeah. I think they just worship different goddess god and the goddess, yeah, from them.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 46:35

Yeah. This is a gorgeous coin. It's currently at a at a hammer price right now of of $18,000, And we're expecting this thing to be considerably more due to the style and and I guess probably the the rarity the rarity of of the of the piece. So is there Yeah.

Vera Liu: 46:54

In the coins during the ancient coin auction, actually, you will see a lot of activities. I'm sometimes, I think ancient coin auction will be much active compared with some other war session or I'm not so sure about US session. But for war compared to war session, sometimes it can be more active. And I don't know. Maybe this the they're beating habit, the ancient coin collector's beating habit.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 47:27

Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you that question anyways, and we can just cover it right now, which is, you know, is there any tips that you would give to a collector to avoid overpaying in a competitive auction, you know, to not let the price go too crazy and and to overpay or or whatever. Is there anything that you'd give as a advice for for a collector?

Vera Liu: 47:52

This is another hard question because the idea of overpaying for something is a little bit tricky to think about in general. For example, buying a coin is like buying a horse. I mean, paying more or less, 10 percent more, 20% less can both be reasonable. So the situation of the market is also very important. When a type is extremely popular, you may pay a fair price for the for that current market.

Vera Liu: 48:26

But after a couple of years, when the market cooled down a little bit, you may realize it was over overheated, and then you may over And you eventually Andy ended up, like, overpaying. But some situation are just the opposite. It's just the opposite. You overpaid at that time, and the the coin is undervalued at that time. So after several years, you found out you bought it cheap.

Vera Liu: 48:57

So so the only thing I can see, usually, the auction will be competitive for a reason. Yeah. If you you have noticed the price is going too high over your budget, try to find try to find the reason first. Is it because this is a super rare type? Nobody has seen this coin maybe for less than twenty years, thirty years, or even longer time.

Vera Liu: 49:29

Or this coin has a really good pedigree and a couple really big collectors, they just want to have this one. And Mhmm. I think you would want to know who you you you are beating against and what's the reason why this this thing is too competitive. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 49:51

I think that's interesting. I mean, the the the concept of of overpaying really is in light of or or in comparison to to to what? You know? If you have a time horizon for owning this coin, if say you are looking to build a set of a collection that you plan to hold for ten years or for a longer time horizon, what's most important is having the piece that appeals to you the most and that you're most excited about and most interested in, and that will fit perfectly into the set and given enough time, you're probably gonna be very well off. You you're gonna probably do just fine on the coin by having the best quality piece and in the collection over, you know, over a particular period of period of time.

Vera Liu: 50:39

Let me go ahead. And oh, sorry. And sometimes if you some collectors, when they go to me, when they are really worried about the competition, I would suggest them to just follow the live auction online. Most of auctions are wise, this kind of function nowadays. So you you can watch what is happening, and you will you can decide whether to participate or not, and you will feel much better.

Vera Liu: 51:10

Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 51:11

Yeah. Let me go ahead and pull up then the auction highlights here. We'll we'll round out our conversation about the auction. So this is the Claudius Albinios.

Vera Liu: 51:22

Oh, this is the star of the auction.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 51:25

Yeah. Ah, okay. So tell us about this one. So this is a Roman coin, Roman gold coin.

Vera Liu: 51:32

Claudius Albinos, I mean, this is this is very scary type of Claudius Albinos. And if you are interested in Roman history in general, and you will know this is a very hard to get emperor in the 12 Caesar set. So and, also, the other thing is it this type not always come come with this nice condition. And Yeah. Yeah.

Vera Liu: 52:00

For example, if you look at our description, you will find we send this coin for a greeting, and it got graded as choice x f star strike five, surface five, which means this is a perfect coin in somehow in some way.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 52:19

Yeah. So Basically.

Vera Liu: 52:21

Yeah. And, also, the other thing I'm not so sure people how how how people are familiar with NGC grading skills, especially for the ancient coins. Sometimes they will try to downgrade the AU coins and give a grade as choice AUXF. If you exchange exchange choice XF grade to numerical grade, it might be AU 53, 55.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 52:46

I see. I see.

Vera Liu: 52:47

So will give an AU 55 AU grade. And and and sometimes one eight when a coin is too perfect, it gets the perfect strike and the perfect surface. I just feel people will feel but it is in a low AU condition. They will try to give a choice x f grade. So

Tony Gryckiewicz: 53:12

Yeah. For

Vera Liu: 53:12

this coin, it's a AU coin to me. And, also, I just if you look at it look at the details. And if you can hold it in hand, you will see how last choice this coin as well. And it's yeah. For this type, it's very hard to get a coin in this condition.

Vera Liu: 53:33

It's already rare. For the type, it's already very rare.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 53:37

Yeah.

Vera Liu: 53:38

The the condition even add more scarce to to the coin. So I would say if you are collecting, like, Roman imperial aurus and you are a serious collectors, and you should really consider about these coins.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 53:56

Yeah. Yeah. I I think it's amazing. The minimum bid is a $120,000. So you know

Vera Liu: 54:04

Yeah. This is something up there. Yeah. This is something happened to ancient auction ancient coin auction a lot. A lot of activities will happen at

Tony Gryckiewicz: 54:16

Yeah.

Vera Liu: 54:16

The online session or the live session. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 54:18

Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. It's a little bit early. I mean, relatively speaking, this is the the auctions next week, but when it comes to the serious bidders, it's a little bit early from a strategy perspective to try to, you know, put put put some a big put a big

Vera Liu: 54:33

number out

Tony Gryckiewicz: 54:34

there and and

Vera Liu: 54:35

The price in your mind. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 54:38

Yeah. Okay. So we are going to bring up another coin. So this is going to be a world coin actually. We have a Qing dynasty, I think that's right, Chinese coin.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 54:52

So this is really interesting and this is a pattern. So yeah, go ahead. I know this is a lot about ancient coins, but you guys also do world coins too.

Vera Liu: 54:59

Yes. The reason why I picked this out only because CNG is always get a really good reputation about ancient coins in general, but actually, we are also doing world coins and the British coin British coins, and we we especially in this upcoming CNG auction one thirty, actually, we got some selective wonderful items from the world and the British session. And I am Chinese, so, of course, I want to pick up a Chinese coin to talk a little bit to get your attention about the sale. So this is nineteen o seven Chinese China Qing dynasty Dingwei Yiren. Is the year, and is the denomination with its which means $1.

Vera Liu: 55:52

And this is very unique and special and also scarce type because back then, you know, in old China, especially before the the the the transformer of the coinage, actually, in China, we carry a totally different system, all the traditional system of the weight weight system. For example, you may heard about some denomination like. And and so during the later Qing dynasty, we try to upgrade or we try to change our coin system from the cash coin to the melt coinage. And then at the time, there is argue, like, should we use the oldest weight standards, tail, Liang, that system, or should we to should we move to a more international weight system, like, which can connect with either realis or those or international coins. So this is something created as a patent to try to prove that actually the other way, the international weight system will work better in China.

Vera Liu: 57:09

But somehow this is a long progress. It's not like one day they can achieve, and then it didn't put into a massive production for this type. So made make this very scarce. And especially this one is in a very old annex white holder and got the f 62 grade. It's a very high grade for the type.

Vera Liu: 57:32

So Yeah. If you are interested in Chinese coins and the Chinese history of the coinage Chinese coinage history, you may consider take a look at this and consider to get this one.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 57:46

Okay. K. Shia, Shia. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Vera Liu: 57:50

Very good presentation.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 57:52

Thank you, thank you. Did I get my, is that right, Shia? Is that, that's, that's,

Vera Liu: 57:57

that's, that's perfect. That's perfect. Yeah. Means, thank you. Yeah.

Vera Liu: 58:02

Good.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 58:03

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry folks. No. I know that's how much Chinese I know.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 58:08

Perfect. Yeah. Okay. Alright. So we'll move on to this one here.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 58:15

And this is the last piece, something to not miss at all. This is an impressive medallion of Constantine the first unique from this a a finchino?

Vera Liu: 58:26

This one is really special. So why it's a medallion. It's a silver medallion. Medallion is a very special, like, bigger large bigger size of silver in the ancient Rome Rome period. And also, Constantine first, I I don't think I need to address more.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 58:45

Sure.

Vera Liu: 58:45

Yeah. So with numerous historical figure. And for this coin, the the special part is when you look at the size and also the portrait on the obverse of Constantine first, it looks like ancient Greek coin. Don't you feel? Yeah.

Vera Liu: 59:02

Yeah. Yeah. And Alexander, we just saw we just yeah. It looks like it it got, like, a relatively higher relief with other Roman coins and also the style of the poultry. Mean, it looks like ancient Greek coins.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 59:24

Yeah, for sure.

Vera Liu: 59:25

Yeah. That's the fascinating of this that's the fascinating part of this this coin. Also that's why I really appointed I really want to point this out. And medallion is very scarce. So in general speaking, everyone wants to get one.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 59:42

So Constantine the Great, Constantine the First, also known as Constantine the Great, was very famous Roman empire emperor who essentially helped to unite the the Roman empire under one common religion and brought together a sense of unity to the Roman, to Rome during, or the Roman empire during this period, believe of some instability. So AD three zero seven. So, and the type here, yeah, you're right. I mean, it looks so much like a tetradrama of Alexander with the kind of right facing portrait. And then we have the reverse look so much like Zeus.

Vera Liu: 01:00:22

Like, Athena, Zeus, like sitting over there.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:00:26

Exactly. Yeah.

Vera Liu: 01:00:27

It's very interesting. That's why we can go back to the first question where you ask me why I think ancient word US or ancient coins are fascinating to me because somehow they are connected with each other. The only reason, if you know more about ancient coins, you will find the connection more to the modern coinage, to different period coinage. You can find the similarity between those things, the different period or different countries coinage.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:00:59

Yeah. That is a very interesting point. And I was just looking for the answer here. So compared to the coins of a lot of the Greeks where they would put a, you know, they would put like Apollo or they would put Hercules or someone like a, like a, one of their Greek gods, they would This put in on the is actually Constantine. Is that right?

Vera Liu: 01:01:23

Yes. That's right. That's it.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:01:24

Yeah. Yeah. Which is interesting in terms of, like, what that message is, what it states. You know, it's the same thing with US coins going from us putting liberty on our our coins, on our half dollars and a quarters, and we switched them over to presidents at some point. You know, real people going from mythical figures to real people.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:01:42

That was an interesting little little point here. And do you know who's on the reverse?

Vera Liu: 01:01:48

That's another topic actually we can talk about because they use coin to to to make themselves. The the ruler use coin to make himself as another god to to the people. So that's another topic we can maybe yeah. We don't have much time.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:02:10

Well, yeah. Exactly. We could do that another time because I I wanna talk about at some point, and then wanna do another episode with you on the Tyrone Collection for sure. Yeah. But then secondarily, to talk on this discussion or this topic of coins as political or propaganda would be really interesting.

Vera Liu: 01:02:26

Most. Yeah. Yeah. And the Yeah. Yeah.

Vera Liu: 01:02:30

And the back to the the other question, the reverse is the Roma.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:02:36

Depicting Roma is found here significantly rarer. Who is Roma? This Roma.

Vera Liu: 01:02:42

Roma is a figure symbolized the figure for Roman Roman city. Roma.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:02:52

Or the city of Roma. Yeah. The city okay. Interesting. I did not know there was a figure.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:02:59

Well, I only Yeah. Sent this episode to my

Vera Liu: 01:03:01

Britannia. And nowadays, we're more familiar with Brittania.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:03:07

Vera, so you are a consignment manager for classical numismatic group and you work with clients and customers all the time. Work and you look at a lot of collections. So people that come and bring a collection to consign with CNG, obviously you must talk to collectors about building collections. How do you recommend setting collecting goals that keep somebody focused, but still allow them some room to explore?

Vera Liu: 01:03:33

This is a really a great question. So for to be honest, for each collector, it will require a personalized plan that fits their own personality and also their financial status. But there's one thing I'd like to share with you. I came up with an idea called subscription collecting. So Okay.

Vera Liu: 01:03:56

I yeah. Subscription collecting. I got this idea because I've noticed that some rare types, not necessarily expensive, only shows up every once in a while. So I started to think, if someone can buy each of them, when they show up, he will dominate that type and he can get a decent collection after years. So I came up with this idea and have introduced it to multiple clients of mine, just like you do subscription on magazines, TV programs, or just YouTube channels.

Vera Liu: 01:04:35

You consider yourself pay a monthly fee or a quarterly fee to enjoy this hobby. Let's say, every month you can spend around $300 and you need to keep watching the market, then you want to find the perfect type coin for you. This type need to appear to the market every month, and the value should be roughly around 300. So each time, when this time comes to the market, you will buy it. You can buy it.

Vera Liu: 01:05:08

I'm suggesting this because for a lot of collectors, there are simply just too many choices every day in the market. Ancient coins is a really large range and a broader range of coins. There's always auctions and there's always sales, and you will get lost in these frequent deals. So they may overspend or they may miss something, but they will regret and feel frustrated afterwards. And the sub collection collecting style require you to make a plan prior to buying.

Vera Liu: 01:05:51

And once you start, it's like a dollar cost averaging. So Yeah. Yeah. Hope that well, let me give you I can give you I will give you successful example. Actually, I

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:06:09

am Yeah. Please.

Vera Liu: 01:06:10

Yeah. I'm also a collector. So I was very interested in coins of the Spanish empire before I started to collect the inshires. You know, Spanish empire, Spanish related coins, that's a huge field. I was roughly at that time, I was roughly able to spend maybe $3,000 every quarter.

Vera Liu: 01:06:32

And I checked all the auction records and eBay sales, just everything of previous, like, three to five years, I realized that there was this type of either realis struck by the wind of Segovia from 1586 to 1729. Quite rare and historically important. Almost every year, you will see five, six nice examples show up in the market, and the prices were always between, like, 1,500 to 5,000 each. So I started to buy Segovia eight Realis. The frequency and the budget worked perfectly for me.

Vera Liu: 01:07:17

So there was a nice example, I always got it. And ever since I started the ancients, I'm doing the same thing with ancient Roman gold aureae for the tetrarchy. Constantine first is also one of the emperor in the tetrarchy period as well. It still works for me. I only select the specific types within my budget, within my requirements.

Vera Liu: 01:07:44

And whenever they show up, I always have a good shot at buying them. So and the frequency and the rarity always allow me to raise the budget for the next one again. So it really works for me. So and so in order to do this kind of subscription collecting, If you are someone who has no idea what you should do, don't know where to go to, I think CNG I'm sorry. I don't want to promote CNG a lot, but CNG's website is really a good platform for people to follow.

Vera Liu: 01:08:23

We have biweekly e sale, and we also provide the database for our auction records, all the auction results, the retail results. So for a new collector, you can go to our website and use a couple of keywords. For example, Alexander the great tetradrome. And to find the ruler, the regions, the denomination, the type you are interested, and check the auction records of the last few years, see the frequency and the price range of different types and find the right type for yourself. I think in this way, make your make your collecting life much easier.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:09:05

Interesting. So this is basically a way to structure your expenditures, not spend too much too quickly, and and make sure that you're regularly building and adding to your collection. And you also are staying focused on looking for a particular type and a particular budget and looking at them at a pretty regular interval. So yeah, it's a very, it's definitely an interesting approach, definitely. Know it's the first time I've ever heard of an approach, you know, such as, such as that one.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:09:40

So, no, no. Thank you. Thank you

Vera Liu: 01:09:42

for that. Enough money, you can even subscribe to different storyline or different type coins. For example Yeah. For monthly frequency, you want to buy a Roman aureus. And for, like, weekly frequency, you may buy Alexander Tendro drop.

Vera Liu: 01:10:01

Depends on what's your budget or what's your goal. So I think that will make life easier and also make sure you get the best chance to to buy the coins. Because most of time, when it comes to the auction, sometimes the competition is quite competitive. For example, you set up a budget about $300. It went up to 400.

Vera Liu: 01:10:25

You will hesitate. Should I beat 400? Should I beat 500? But if you have already set up the goal, like, I would like to spend a range, maybe a 300 to a thousand range. So even though you feel, oh, you may overpaid a little bit, but you got what you want.

Vera Liu: 01:10:46

And after several years, when you finish completed the collection or complete this series, you are collecting and you will feel, oh, I really didn't overpaid or I really just it's really worthwhile for me to have the coin instead of missing or losing it. So yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:11:07

Cool. Very cool. Alright. Well, I will I will see what I can do for well, I'm not really a collector, so I can't really subscribe personally to the to the concept, but cause I'm buying coins all the time. Frankly, have budgets that I said as a dealer that I need to buy in coins every single month so that I have inventory, for the next few months.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:11:28

That's, that's how my, my, my business works. But, yeah, very interesting. And, you know, for those out there, people out there in the audience, you know, this is a great opportunity for you to ask some questions too in the comments below. If you got questions for Vera, she's going to, I'm sure be taking a look at the comments and watching comments as they come in through this video. I will do as the same.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:11:48

So if you have questions specifically ancient coins, about world coins, about auctions and about strategies or building collections and so forth, put them in the comments below. And of course I say this all the time, but definitely like, comment, subscribe, share this podcast. It allows us to keep growing and allows me to keep doing more and more of these, you know, in the future. So, so Vera, how can people find you if they are interested in reaching out with a question or consignment or whatever? What is the best way to contact you?

Vera Liu: 01:12:20

I also have my own Instagram, Facebook. I always welcome you to not follow me, but interact with me, add me as friends, and I would like to talk to you all the time. And, also, you can write to CNG company email, and then you can find me. And I'm always here. I'm just I just enjoy talk to collectors and sharing my experiences.

Vera Liu: 01:12:47

And I think you did a really wonderful job and to keep doing to keep doing this kind of podcast and to help more collectors in different field. I watched shamefully. I didn't watch every episode, but I watched the topic I really like. So Yeah. Sure.

Vera Liu: 01:13:05

I really enjoy your flow. Yeah. And I hope today because today, I know history is a very important part of the ancient coins, but sometimes people don't know much about background. It will be too academic to talk too much about the history. So today, I dig in or approach the ancient coins more from the collecting methodology, the overall, like, methodology, collecting ancient coins.

Vera Liu: 01:13:32

I hope this won't bore you or bore the audience. Yeah. I hope I hope so.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:13:37

No. I hope so. Mean, if this if if they're still watching at this point at at at this point, if they're still watching, then they're obviously not bored, and they're excited to keep hearing everything that we've been talking about up to this point. So no. I think that it you know, a lot of the the coin collecting and coin dealing and and this coin hobby, you know, these pieces are pieces of history.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:13:57

There's the history is is connected with the coin. You can't separate the coin from the history, really, if you're gonna, you know, collect or you're gonna talk about the coin in some way. So they're historical pieces. And I think that the history helps bring the coin alive and gets, you know, brings a story to it. And we certainly is the stuff that I look for when selling coins is I look for stuff with stories.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:14:19

Ancient coins all do have stories like we were just talking about with Constantine, with what he did with the Roman empire, with consolidating Roman empire, with uniting them around one common religion. That was an important part of history for Roman empire. And that coin has some symbolism with Constantine being like the god of the obverse of the coin. So stuff like that. I mean, I just think this is a fantastic, you know, hobby and I do this podcast to educate people, to connect with people out there for sure, but also just to, I guess, get people excited again about a hobby and a hobby that's done so much for my life with finding friends and more friends and giving me reasons to travel.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:15:07

Now it's a business of mine. I think hobbies are fantastic and I do this podcast in order to give people education and get them excited and excited about this hobby and about hobbies in general. But I digress. Shia, Shia, thank you very much for coming on to the episode. Thank you.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:15:28

Thank you. And I hope to definitely do this again with you in the future. We're going to do other episodes about, especially with the Tyrant collection, because we're talking about just the craziest, awesome, as biggest collection like that exists. The stuff in that collection is absolutely amazing. And, you know, walking through that with you would be a real delight.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:15:48

So, I hope to see you at the next next big show. I don't know what what you're doing. Are you going to the Rosemont show in a couple of weeks?

Vera Liu: 01:15:56

Unfortunately, I my next big show maybe in US maybe winter fun.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:16:06

Though oh, really? Wow. All the way up to winter fun. Okay. Well, there's also the Baltimore expo.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:16:11

I am thinking about going out to the Hong Kong show in December.

Vera Liu: 01:16:16

I will December. Actually, if you are going to Hong Kong show, I will recommend to go in the October for the October show. It will be a much bigger and better show in general. Yeah.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:16:30

And

Vera Liu: 01:16:30

we will be there in October 12 to ten to twelve in in Hong Kong.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:16:37

Yeah. That's there's just too many US shows going on during that time I can't get away. I can't get away to go do it, but I hope to do more international shows here soon. So anyways, I won't keep any further. Thank you so much And we'll talk to you.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:16:54

We'll talk to you again.

Vera Liu: 01:16:56

Thank you. Thank you for the time.

Tony Gryckiewicz: 01:16:58

All right. Bye bye.

Vera Liu: 01:16:59

Thank you. Okay.