Ep.20 - Best Baltimore Expo Pickups with John Brush of DLRC #coin #numismatics # coincollecting
Hey, folks. Welcome back to the CABG Coins podcast. My name is Tony Grukevich. I am the owner operator of CABG Coins. Today, I have a fun little episode.
Tony Gryckiewicz:We are on our way back from the Baltimore Whitman Expo, and I thought I'd reach out to my friend, John Brush. John is the president of DLRC, and DLRC, for those who don't know, is one of the largest coin companies kind of in this business. They have amazing coins. They also have like an auction that runs pretty frequently. Think it's every Sunday night and they're one of the largest, nicest, best companies kind of in this numismatic market.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I've always kind of set my kind of goal to kind of be like the LRC one day and building up CABG coins, but I was super excited to have John. John agreed to have this podcast with me, talk a little bit about the Baltimore Whitman Expo. We just both returned from. It was a very, very good show for me. I don't know how how did it go for DLRC.
John Brush:Yeah. Thanks for having me, Tony. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. I will say, as I was going home on Friday night, I said, you know, that was probably one of the busier, most active Baltimore shows we've had in quite some time.
John Brush:It was just nonstop, start to finish. Didn't get back to a hotel room until like 10:10 thirty every night. Start at 08:00. It was just it was intense. It was really busy.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. From your perspective, what stood out this time in terms of, like, the the market energy, dealer participation, collector turnout? What would you say was kind of the the thing that really stood out?
John Brush:Well, you've since John Feigenbaum and the team at CDN Publishing bought Whitman. The the it seems like every show, they're trying something a little something a little new, and they're and they're kind of trying to grow the show and and and make it a little bit more relevant. So a couple of things that happened at this show is that the first day, they they did a P and G day, which is basically a a dealer only day on Wednesday, which is typically we get to set up in Wednesday evening, like five to 8PM or something. But this time, it was a full on day of trading between dealers starting at 9AM on Wednesday, and setup actually started from five to eight. So it was literally, you could be on the board store from 9AM to 8PM on Wednesday.
John Brush:So instead of having people trading in the hotel rooms or in the meeting rooms at the convention center on Wednesday, it was you're on the board's floor, You moved your table. You set it up, and and you were just going all all day Wednesday. So it was a Yeah. You know, that first day starting with that, I think it kinda changed a little bit of the flow of the show. So then when the retail came in at noon on Thursday, you know, the dealers had already done a lot of their trading.
John Brush:You had new coins to put out, and there was just there was it was constant activity as the show moves along. So it was their fall show. Their November winter show is always like, out of the three shows they have each year, this is kind of their big event. This is the biggest of the three shows that they do. And they kind of try to they add in a couple of little nuances.
John Brush:You know, they have podcasts going on. They have, you know, TV crews there. They're always trying to highlight different things for the November show, which makes it kind of fun. Adds a lot. They had the colonial the colonial collectors meetings, the barber society meetings.
John Brush:The mint director, the the the new to be finalized mint director was was in attendance. They had the US Mint set up. That was just a lot going on.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. I agree. There was definitely a lot going on. I felt the traffic was really pretty good. For those who don't know what P and G is, if we have some aspiring numismatists out there, aspiring coin dealers out there, Could you explain just for a minute what is the what is P and G?
John Brush:Sure. Sure. Great question. The P and G is a professional numismatist guild. It's a it's a great network.
John Brush:It's a it's a great network of dealers. We put in a lot of work towards education, towards consumer protection, and just dealer issues and tax issues and that kind of thing. So it's a professional organization of coin dealers, and they host the occasional, what they call P and G day at two or three shows a year. It's just a dealer only trading day.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. I'm not yet a member of the P and G. I would like to be very well suited. I think one of the advantages that I could tell from wanting to join in, and one of the reasons I would like to join is when you're a new dealer, it takes a while, I think, really to get your name out there or to get to build reputation as just being a solid guy and being a solid dealer that the, the, the fact that like your check is going be good, that's an important piece. I've gone through transactions where, you know, I've been kind of trading coins for about the past five years, mostly online.
Tony Gryckiewicz:People know me on Instagram, they know me through this YouTube channel. They've seen me around some coin shows, but I remember I was just at the Pan Show and I got done with a deal and it wasn't even a very large deal, but I just said, you know, is it Czech okay? And the dealer, you know, was, was like, who are you? Can anybody vouch for you in this room? And the advantage of being a P and G dealer is I just simply say, well, I'm a P and G dealer.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And that kind of helps clear me that you're part of this, this organization to recognize the organization that all of, you know, every other dealer knows of.
John Brush:Yeah. That's why one thing, I'll send the application your way actually after this, after this. But it really sets you apart as a professional. You know, originally the founding concept was, was a group of dealers that they wanted to make sure that, again, if you wrote a check, it's good. We vet members, the quality of There's a code of ethics that you have to follow.
John Brush:I mean, you're the you would be the perfect addition as a P and G member, Tony. I mean, knowing how you operate your business and knowing your personal standards of ethics, etcetera, I mean, it's people like you are exactly the kind of members that they want, but it really just kind of removes doubt.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Nice. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So what I noticed this year, we arrived on Wednesday for dealer setup probably around four, 04:30, maybe close to 5PM. So while I was setting up my table, there was so much other business that was already taking place around me. And because of that fact, I did not buy that many coins at this show. I anticipated buying a lot more across the table. And while I got to meet a lot of my viewers out there, people that I've done business with before that brought me coins to purchase, the room is so large.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I didn't get to do as much buying as I would have liked to do at a show this large. I think in part because there was so much activity that was taking place a full day ahead of time before I set up. So I think this is, you know, if I'm going to invest in the Baltimore show being coming up P and G dealer, think probably makes a whole lot more sense for me too. So definitely gonna look into that. So just back up a little bit for those who are not familiar with DLRC, what can you tell us about DLRC in terms of its history of focus?
Tony Gryckiewicz:What sets you guys apart in terms of today's market? Also, you know, like how did you eventually take the helm at the company?
John Brush:Wow. There's a lot to pack into a short Sure. Answer But David Lawrence Hercoins was founded in 1979 by David Lawrence Feigenbaum, and he was a vest pocket dealer initially and a marine biologist. And as his career took him away from marine biology, he didn't receive a tenure as a professor. And at that point, said, You know what?
John Brush:Well, I guess I'm going to have to go straight into coins. He had been doing a mail order business for years, and he moved into coins. He was a scientistresearcher type. Wrote the book on Barbara coinage that many people have seen. It's on the Neumann portal, but great reference guide for all Barbara dimes, quarters, and halves.
John Brush:But eventually, David's son, John Feigenbaum, took over the company and worked with David for many years. I came to work for John in 2006, and I've been here so almost twenty years now, I guess. And I came on just to do more of the wholesale trading, buy more coins for the website, sell coins wholesale basis, that kind of thing. And over time, it just turned out to be a wonderful fit. I love coins, John.
John Brush:John doesn't love coins so much. John was more of a desktop publishing kind of guy in marketing and technology and super smart guy, but incredibly knowledgeable about points, but it wasn't really his passion. Points have always been my passion. So I think over time, John had the opportunity eventually to partner with a couple other people to buy The Gray Sheet, CDN Publishing. And he looked at me and said, John, I'm gonna do this.
John Brush:You have approximately a year to figure out what we're gonna do. Are we gonna close down DLRC, or, you know, you have the opportunity to buy it? I looked at John and I'm like, Well, I don't have the money to buy it, finance it, or anything like that. But we had a great group of people here. We still have a number of those people here.
John Brush:I said, You know, it would be shame to close it down. And then one day, just happened to be talking to a new customer of ours, and his name was Delroy Hanson. And I was helping him get on the website because he was having password issues on a Sunday evening. And he was telling me about what he did with just casual conversation. He owns many different companies, invested in many companies, real estate.
John Brush:I mean, serial entrepreneur, really. I said, have you ever thought about buying a coin company? He's like, no. I'm like, why not? He's like, well, no one's ever offered one to me.
John Brush:So I was like, have one. Do you wanna talk?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay.
John Brush:And he had told me his collecting goals were to collect a coin from everything, literally every circulation issue from 1792 to present ever made by the US Mint. And I told him that's crazy and impossible. I was saying, You probably need a coin dealer to help you. He's like, Well, that wouldn't hurt. And four months later, we had bought the company and John, we worked out the deal.
John Brush:And my job is to run the company and to help manage his collection. And he would help us on the financial side and on the banking and business relation pieces. And so we bought the company, and for in 2019, I guess, kinda since then, we rebranded it from David Lawrence for a coin to DLRC two years ago. Just too many words and too many letters. Yeah.
John Brush:But we've been you know, our focus is collectors. It's not selling to dealers. You know, we do online auctions. We've been doing online auctions since since the Richmond sale. We we do thousands of coins every month.
John Brush:They're more curated sales. They're not we're not looking to throw phone book auctions out there. That's not our goal. Our goal is to offer coins, new coins, every week in our Sunday sales. And then we have also a Thursday called our red carpet rarities, which are like kind of the highlight collection based sales.
John Brush:So if you had a collection that you wanted to sell and you want it to be your auction, we can do that for you. But Sunday nights are our main weekly events. We also have the weekly Thursday events that run about a month. But our focus is on collectors, building collections. When the time comes to sell, selling their collections, helping people build their collections, but not now our goal isn't to get our coins in front of other dealers.
John Brush:Our goal is to get the coins in front of other end user collectors because we wanna have the opportunity to buy them back again one day. You you would love to sell a coin to a collector at a show with someone you have a relationship with instead of selling it to me because you might get the chance to buy that coin back again when they're trading it back or somebody else. So that's our whole concept of business. And, you know, we have about 25 to 30 people that work here. And, you know, we we love what we do.
John Brush:We're we're collectors.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I had the fortunate opportunity recently to come visit you guys. I was very impressed with the office, and I love your staff. I wanna say I love your staff. It sounds pretty intense. I I
John Brush:think you guys are great. It's okay. I love them too.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I think you guys are great. I recently, I had lunch with John, call, and had a chance to to hang out with him and Jack and and look through some coins, that was a fantastic time that was in preparation for the Virginia Beach show. So jumping back into the show, what from your perspective was really selling at this year's Baltimore show when the in terms of the the collector crowd that came through the doors on Thursday, what was hot from your perspective at the table of DLRC?
John Brush:You know, it's kind of funny, Tony, because you say you weren't able to buy as much as you'd like, and I was raving about the show. But when you asked me what was hot and what sold at the show, our focus really at a coin show, we bring a couple 100 coins and we put them on display and we have them out there. But honestly, our goal isn't really to sell at the show. I mean, we'd love to sell coins that we have with us at the show, but it's not really our focus. Our focus is more about getting in consignment, buying coins, and meeting collectors that are customers.
John Brush:So most of our sales happen in the office. So, you know, we have 10,000 coins here for sale or whatever the number is, give or take, depending on the week. But, you know, when I kind of look and see what's selling in general, you know, coins that are PCGS graded with CAC stickers are selling easiest coin to sell. They run out the door. I mean, I'm sure you experienced the same thing.
John Brush:You can't replace those coins quickly enough. We have a lot of people that have really appreciated the CAC holders. Now they they don't sell as quickly as the others, but the coins and the holder quality are are top notch. Mhmm. And and they present really well.
John Brush:Little bit more difficult to sell because the registry isn't as developed as the PCGS registry goes. But classic coins pre-nineteen sixty four across the board that are nice quality with nice eye appeal are what sells. And we have zero problem moving those coins along and, you know, replacing them is the challenge. I mean, when you sell one, it's hard to go find another one, but that seems to be what's kind of the hot spot of the market right now. You know, we sell modern coins and that kind of thing, but I can't ever tell you anybody gets really excited about modern coins.
John Brush:I I think it's there are some collectors that like them, and we sell them and, you know, I understand them, but our focus is on the the pre 1964 vintage classic US coins, and nice coins seem to be selling very easily.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Yeah. I did end up selling a $17.95 bus dollar that, for those who remember the podcast I did back in the ANA Worlds for our Money review with Kenny Duncan, I had brought that coin up on the screen. That coin sold at this show. I was able to place that with a collector and I felt like, I also have a seventeen point nine five Flowing Here dollar right now.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That's going to be probably on my website by the time this episode airs. And that coin between those two, I was asked a lot about that. I feel like that bust market, that early coin, the early silver dollar market is really pretty hot right now. That that's kind of what I'm sensing. And my only fear with selling the things is then replacing them because I want to have the inventory, the things that people get excited about.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I found that there were a lot of people looking for gold. I mean, the gold prices and silver prices being where they're at, there was a lot of people walking the floors looking for deals on bullion and that's just kind of part of, you know, part of a coin show. On the topic of the CACG holders and CAT grading, I agree with you. I think that their holder, the product itself is really nice. I like it quite a bit.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That being said, I've had some coins that I thought were going to really fly out the door for my inventory that haven't, and they've been inside one of those solars. An example being, I've got this eighteen eighty nine Karsta City, an AU53 in a CAC grading holder. It's got a lovely kind of reddish brownish patina. I would say it's one of the most attractive Carson City dollars that I've ever owned, circulated Carson City dollars I've ever owned. And I've had that coin for a while now.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And it's in a CAC grading company, you know, holder. And I just, I think if I had to create a theory, it would just be that the coin is a perfect coin for somebody's registry, PCGS registry set, but it's not in a PCGS holder with a sticker, you know, it's, it's still on that CAC holder. So do you think that, do you feel like folks are warming up to that grading or what have you noticed on that front?
John Brush:That's a, that's a great question. I think that the product that's on the market has been widely accepted or especially early on. Strange that you mentioned 89. I had an 89 and a CAC G AU58 holder, which sometimes you've seen a coin just too many times, and you're just ready for it. You're trying to get rid of it any way, shape, or form.
John Brush:It's a coin that sticks in the back of my mind because I could not sell the coin, could not get rid of it. I was ready to take a loss and it took forever to sell the And, you know, the market is not fully developed, is how I would put it for CAT grading. You look at that and say, I think it's gonna take time for that product to be widely accepted in the marketplace on the collector side. The coins are nice, but, you know, as a collector mentality, it seems like the last five years or so, the collector mentality is registry sets have always been popular. They've always been hot.
John Brush:And there have always been a lot of registry collectors, but it really it seems that a large number of collectors really just wanna fill in their sets. And and that seems to be you know, PCGS has a large lead on that for over everyone. And, you know, PCGS registry sets are always the that's the marketing angle that you always hear. People are talking about that. Like, hey.
John Brush:Look at my registry set, and they send you a link to a PCGS registry set. Now CACGregistry actually programmatically works far better than the PCGS registry set, but it doesn't have the support yet. So, you know, I like the product. I've had no problem selling the coins in general, but there are some coins that just kind of sit there a little bit longer what you would think should be. And I'm sure it's the same as your 89 CC.
John Brush:It's just sitting there and you're like, sometimes it takes too long to find the customer longer than what we think it should.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So I would say that the number one subject that seems to that collectors seem to have the the biggest question about collectors and dealers together, both, would be whether or not a coin that's within that holder is equivalent to the same grade and a PC holder with a sticker. I always have that question, you know, in terms of price guides, because we all know that there is a gray sheet for non stickered coins and there's a gray sheet for stickered coins. So what's your thoughts about that? I mean, I've seen some coins that, you know, are in CACG holders at a particular state of grade and I have a tough time picturing that coin in a PC with a sticker kind of scenario.
John Brush:Wow. Full disclosure, I am an investor in CAT gratings, but I try to look at things as independently because I'm not active with them. It's just, you know, they have many dealers that invested in their startup. The theory behind it is that, yes, any coin in their holder, they would sticker if it was in another company's holder. Now, do I find that stickering and grading sometimes have different grading lines?
John Brush:I think that's absolutely the fact. And the reason being is that any time that you have grading is subjective. Anytime that you have someone looking at your coins, if I woke up and I had a wonderful morning and my breakfast was perfect and my commute was great and I'm grading coins that day, I'm probably going to be in a pretty good mood. But if my dog ran out in the backyard and I had to go chase it down and then the commute got bad and there's a lot of traffic or, you know, I burned my eggs, you know, that's going to set me off and make the day not as bright and cheery. So I look at grading and say, it's so subjective.
John Brush:That's why so many people end up submitting coins multiple times is that they want to get the grader on that good day. And if that coin is one that'll grade eight times out of 10 as the lower grade because the grader is not as out of positive outlook on the day, but then the other two days they can hit them on the good day, that it changes the perspective of the grade. So kind of looking at that, I think your question, it's a fair one, but I think it kind of goes across the lines of all grading in that it is so subjective. But the standard for CAT grading is that if it's in CAT grading, it's an AE55 holder. It doesn't matter if that coin's in a PCGS or an NGC holder.
John Brush:They would put a sticker on the coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I see.
John Brush:So that's what they say, and that's their standard. It's also if you buy a coin with a sticker on it, as long as it's not a plus grade, they will cross it over into their holder at the same grade. That's also their re holder legacy crossover policy.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah, I got one for them. I got one definitely that I need to get crossed into a CACG holder. Cool. Very cool. I appreciate the honesty, appreciate your transparency and honesty in responding to that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:It's a good, good perspective. I've described it to people somewhat similarly, and I thought that this, that the number on the holder there for the grade would be the minimum grade at which this coin would receive a sticker at one of the other grading surfaces. So, yeah, I have always defended the fact that the CACG coin that's an AE53 is equivalent to the same thing, you know, at PC or NGC with, with, with a sticker. I think, I think it makes a lot of sense. And at least that's absolutely the way that they are being traded in the market.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Now, if a coin doesn't have great eye appeal, it's going to typically great, you know, trade a little bit less anyway, regardless.
John Brush:No one wants ugly coins.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of the opposite of, speaking of the opposite of ugly coins, and I want to bring up some coins that we both picked up from the show. I'm going start off with yours and let me go ahead and share. So taking a look at our first coin here, we have this 1825 copper scented.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I believe they call this the matron head scent and it's lovely. It's got a wonderful red color. I do enjoy the kind of very nice original surfaces and patina on this coin. So tell us a little bit about why you selected this one for one of your favorite pickups from the show.
John Brush:Well, this is kind of a fun coin. It's a PCGS graded coin, MS 65 with a CAC sticker.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay.
John Brush:A dealer friend of ours walked up from the Northeast to this coin with the coin to me, and it had a pedigree on it. It has a pedigree of the Bmax mail collection. Now, my son, Wes, attends the shows with me. He's 16 years old. The word we use in the industry, it's not derogatory, is kind of a coin nerd.
John Brush:He really likes the history of the coins and the pedigrees and that kind of thing. And B. Max Mill was a dealer from Fort Worth, Texas in the early 1900s, and he was kind of the Barnum and Bailey of coin collecting. Produced this catalog called the Star Rare Coin Encyclopedia, dealt in all the rarest of the coins. He was the one that put out a bounty for $19.13 V nickel initially, just a real character of a guy.
John Brush:Okay. But he didn't really collect coins. So when I saw this coin, it had that pedigree on my and Wesley saw it over my shoulder, and he got really excited. I could see it in his face, and he's like, what? But so there's only and I could be slightly off in this, but only a few coins can be traced back to Bmax Mel's personal collection.
John Brush:And, we've literally just started doing the research on this coin, which is Wesley came into the office early today on Monday morning with me. He's like, I'm gonna figure out where this coin came from. And we've traced the pedigree back to 1923 to a guy named William Festus Morgan. And and it traded hands, and then the coin ended up in the the Nasker collection, the Ted Nasker collection. It's also gone through the hands of Terry Denman, who's one of the foremost copper collectors around right now.
John Brush:But it it just the coin was a stunning coin as a p c as a gem. PCGS created with a CAC sticker. Saw the coin like, oh my goodness. This is a stunning coin. And then with the pedigree and going back into history on it, you know, the the the dealer had offered it to me.
John Brush:I'm like, yeah. I'm gonna buy that coin. Just got me really excited. It was it was clearly just a a neat piece and Yeah. Just got me really excited.
John Brush:I like it. And I'm like, oh, that's the kind of coin I want. Yeah. So
Tony Gryckiewicz:I would love to know the pedigree on a lot of the coins that I own right now or the stuff that I've had in the past, some amazing things. Yeah. I've been through a lot of hands, a lot of interesting hands, who knows, through the course of history. And especially when you can tie it to somebody that is significant in history, numismatic history, that is pretty cool. Great story you can add to the coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So what is this one? So this is I think this is a pattern, right? This is a seeded is this a dime? What is this?
John Brush:It's a seeded dime. Actually, Jack Smith that works with me here at DRC found the coin on the Bourse floor, and supposedly the coin was purchased off of a at a in a storefront, uncertified, and submitted. Now the coin's created by PCGS. It has a CAC sticker. I'm gonna get the JUD number here and tell it to you really quickly.
John Brush:But it it's it's a beautiful coin. That TruVue actually makes it look really nice. It's very accurate because it has a lot of color to it. I wasn't sure if we're gonna be able to capture the color on it, But it's just such a it's a it's a Judd seven seventeen, and it was grayed by PCGS as Proof 65 red brown, and it has a CAC sticker to it. But it was just such a cool coin that Jack was Jack brought it over like, can we buy this?
John Brush:Can we buy this? And and and he was, like, asking for affirmation on it because patterns are a little bit of a weird item sometimes to buy, and there's not a lot of history to some sales history to some of them. So we had to really dive into it. And in the end, we're like, okay. Let's let's figure out how to buy this coin.
John Brush:But it it was just a it's just a beautiful, neat, unusual item.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So how can you explain for the public a little bit out there? This is gonna be education for me too. So this is a dime. So this is a seeded dime, but this is graded with a copper designation. As as I read here, there's this stands for silver, I believe nickel and copper.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And so this is some kind of an alloy combination of the three that the equivalent becomes 10¢. Is that kind of the way it works?
John Brush:Yeah. All patterns were essentially produced as test coins or items to see if the government likes the design, kind of like a it's a trial piece sometimes. So what they end up doing on this is actually a fairly popular, reverse, and they're just trying to give you a little bit of the metallic composition of the coin. But, yeah, it's a ceded dime. Now these kind of coins, what I find really cool is that there's so few of these that are made.
John Brush:Now I don't have the, the mintage number on this coin, but, if you look up these kind of coins and you and you're a real student of these things, you can find some really rare items. I mean, for example, it's about an 8,000 to $9,000 coin. And I believe this is actually the finest known for the grade. But it's just kind of a neat little piece that you can say, okay, if you find a regular standard issue coin with only one with finest in them, you're talking six figures, but you can buy this kind of a neat historic piece for, you know, less than $10,000 kind of a neat item.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. There certainly is some value here. From a rarity perspective, lot of these are a lot more rare than the typical, you know, business strike or whatever. The only kind of thing about them is that they're not, you know, there isn't some set that this goes into, right? Correct.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I mean, unless it's some kind of a pattern-
John Brush:They probably have some kind of set for everything, but it, you, it would be impossible to put that set together.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. So, during coin shows, when folks come by the table, I always say hello to them and introduce myself. And I always ask them, you know, are you looking for anything particular today? And one of the responses I get is, well, nothing particular, just waiting to see if something jumps out at me. I'm just looking for what kind of appeals to me or what jumps out at me.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And I think patterns kind of serve that in a coin show because with all the different coins that you have out there, you do see a lot of the same thing. You do see a lot of, you know, Morgan dollar after Morgan dollar after Morgan dollar. So, you know, they all kind of blend in, I think kind of, so patterns tend to stand out as being something that's a little bit unusual, a little bit, a little bit interesting. And if you want to go home with something that is just a little bit different, that kind of piques your, curiosity interest, I think Patterns fits that fits that perfectly.
John Brush:It's kind of funny that you talk about Morgan dollars, Tony, because we sell more Morgan dollars than any other coin, but they, you see so many of them, they're hard to get excited about, but they would, but something like this, you're like, oh, that's why we get excited about these weird coins that are so esoteric.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. So, okay. Jumping into this thing. I saw this when you sent over the cert and I was just blown away. I mean, this is a kind of a dream coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Not that I just dream coin for me to be able to deal in something like this one day would be fantastic, but we have an $18.92 proof $20 So what is the grade on this guy?
John Brush:It's a 63 deep Cameo with a cack sticker.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Wow. Wow. I gotta ask. I mean, how did you come across this? Did somebody walk up to to the table with this?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Is this from another dealer? Or
John Brush:It's funny. Well, we've bought a number of Proof Twenties from various dealers. We have a couple of collectors that are putting together it's hard to say sets of Proof Twenties, but we have a couple of collectors that buy them on occasion, I guess is a better way of putting it. And so we've bought a number of rare proof 20s over the years from different dealers, and they tend to offer them to us before they do anything else with them. So this was a coin that actually it didn't technically happen at the show because the dealer that offered it to me wasn't at the show, but I was at the show.
John Brush:And he sent me a text message saying, just bought this. Do you want it?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Oh my god.
John Brush:And I said, what's the best price? And he said and he gave me his number, and I'm like after five minutes of texting back and forth, he's like, you'll have it in the mail tomorrow. Yeah. So it came in I got to look at it this morning, but we I counted it as a show purchase because it happened while we were there, and it was from a dealer who surprised that he wasn't at the show. But coin is stunning.
John Brush:I mean, the true view doesn't capture the mirrors of the coin, like, in hand because you look at it, you're like, Oh, I can almost take this and shave in the morning with the looking through the mirrors. Mean, it's just so sharp. You know, they they can't quite capture the the contrast, but the coin is just stunning in hand.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Oh my gosh. What stands out the most to me are these devices. It's just the execution of the design, the execution of the full design of Liberty here, how well it was struck, how perfect everything is. This is amazing. This really, really is quite incredible.
John Brush:It's really art when they when you look at that kind of thing and you're like, how did they make you know, we've making coins for 250 years, but you look at this and you're like, oh, this is, this is really special.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Totally. Absolutely gorgeous coin. Totally. Cool. That's so cool you guys get to, deal on stuff like this and trade and stuff like this.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This is fantastic. So, well, move on to some of my purchases that I got a couple of coins. These are some pictures that I took last night. Doesn't do a fantastic job with bringing out the color in this coin. The true view of this was a little bit brighter, but this was one of my favorite purchases.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I picked up this $18.72, 2¢ proof, proof 66 red, red brown with a CAC sticker. And just, this has a really lovely kind of a purplish toning to the coin. This is a coin that just somebody came up and made, offered me a couple of coins, got an opportunity to buy this one and the next one. I think that some collector out there is looking for a type coin, looking for a proof 2¢. It's going to really appreciate and enjoy that coin quite a bit.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And the same person brought up also this coin and I was super excited to purchase one of these. I think the $19.21 Peace Dollar is one of the nicest, most interesting designs of UF points. And the 21 was done in this high relief design that really accentuated the features of the Liberty design on the obverse and the Eagle on the reverse. It was only a one year type. And I actually, I don't know if that's, I think there was a couple nineteen twenty twos or something like that that were made.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Do you mind do you know off the
John Brush:top of
Tony Gryckiewicz:your head about that?
John Brush:Yeah. The nineteen twenty twos are are technically patterns. So It we always call it as a one year type, but the the patterns there there are a couple of different pattern types, but they're exceedingly rare. So, yeah, one year type is absolutely accurate. That's a cool coin.
John Brush:It's really pretty luster.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. There there's no shortage of 21 piece dollars out there. 21 high relief piece dollars.
Tony Gryckiewicz:A lot of them are in 62, 63 that I typically come across. I've had I've owned a couple in 64 and CAC, but this is a 65 CAC high relief piece dollar. So I think this is going to be a perfect coin for somebody out there. The reverse has a little bit of light toning, but I don't think it in any way is negative. I just think it's kind of neutral, but the obverse is nice and bright and the color that's on the periphery, think is also very, very pleasing and oral, very lustrous corn.
John Brush:Very original. I like that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Thank you. Thank you. And then the last piece is this half penny, Hibernia. So I'm learning a lot more about these colonial coins and this is not a U S coin. I think this was made in Ireland, I believe, I think.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And then they were used over or circulated in the in the colonies. Do you know this this story of this?
John Brush:I you know, it makes sense that it was Ireland, but yes. It it was definitely was a they definitely circulated here. That's what's neat about them.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. This is an early half penny. It's just another coin. I actually yeah. Somebody just sold this to me over at the show and I thought this was really quite interesting and lovely, nice early early copper piece.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This is something that is gonna go I think I'm gonna send this to the CAC and see what their thoughts are on this, the 64 plus, see if I can get a sticker on on this one.
John Brush:It's a really pretty coin. I love these things, especially in high grade like that. I mean, they're very rare, very tough to find that nice.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That's one of the things I noticed when I bought this is there were a number of auctions and, and, and sales in the 61 or 62 side, but 64 plus was one of the I don't think I've found another 64 plus kind of out there, so I was happy to purchase this. I think the price guys are a little undervalued on this one actually.
John Brush:Not enough of those trade hands, so they have a hard time finding all the pricing data on those and some of the more obscure coins. So I always tend to find colonials tend to be kind a kind of slide under the radar, they always seem to be a little undervalued, but they're very, very neat items.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Thank you. So I want to round things out. I've got a couple questions. These are fantastic questions I think for the collector out there, people that are going to coin shows. I'm a really, you know, I'm a strategic thinker kind of guy.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I always think about like, how do I attack this show here today, this week and so forth. For collectors attending a large show like Baltimore, what advice would you give them for making the most of it?
John Brush:Well, before I answer that, I'm going show you one more thing that I bought that I just thought was really cool.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Oh, okay.
John Brush:So this is a plaster designed by John Mercanti, who's one of the engravers for the US Mint. He did Silver Eagles and that kind of thing. I bought this at the show as well. This is of the US Mint. Now I had a collector that walked up with five of these, two of which are actual on coins.
John Brush:So I it was a plaster before not exactly the final version. That walked up at the table too, and that's the kind of thing I collect I think it's really just kind of cool, neat art pieces and tell a little bit of a story. So it's kind of fun.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. That's fascinating. So sorry, what is the background on these things again?
John Brush:I'm trying to figure out what the background is on this It's signed by John Mercanti, as you can see right there, who is one of the chief engravers from recent years. A lot of times you'll find them with coin designs, and they'll use this as part of the minting process and the design process. This is of the first US Mint, so I have no idea what this was used for or why it was created. But a couple of the others ones that we picked up, have a better idea, but this one was just kind of like, I wanna hang that in my office, but I gotta figure out why. Why why it was made.
John Brush:So, you know, I'm again, I'm a nerd. I'm gonna, like, dive into this at some point when I get home. Like, why does this exist? Sure. It was kinda fun.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, speaking of things hanging in your office, I've been looking at that flag behind you this whole time, and I've been wondering the story on that.
John Brush:I tend to buy historic things that I think are really cool that I like to hang on the wall. Like, I have gold nugget from the SS Central America on one side of the wall. I have a a letter granting a ship a rite of passage by Andrew Jackson on one wall. I have a painting of the Pantheon in Rome on one wall and weird things. Once we had a printing of the Declaration of Independence on one wall and a check signed by Ty Cobb.
John Brush:Those items have sold and moved on, and it makes me kind of sad. But I kind of find that some of the things that we're able to buy are more fun to hang on the wall and say, okay. I I don't think I would necessarily buy this. My wife would never let me hang it up in my house. But it it's kind of a hang things up on the wall that you that you appreciate and enjoy looking at.
John Brush:But the flag back here was to give you the full view, it was a flag that flew in a courthouse in the mid to late 1800s in Ohio, I believe it was, and it was torn to shreds. And someone bought it in an auction, literally in a plastic bag of shreds of a flag, and he had it matted and framed. And I saw it and I said, I want that. It was so beautiful. I said, that flag has got to have some amazing stories.
John Brush:It's slightly post civil war. You can tell by the number of stars on the flag, but I'm not exactly sure what year it was, but I've got the history behind it. If flew at a courthouse in the Midwest somewhere, it's just kind of a cool little item that I just like it. It makes me it reminds me of the coins we're dealing in and the history that we have. It makes it fun.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I like it. All right. So back to our collectors. Was a great little segue. It's fantastic.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I'm also quite a bit of a nerd myself. So I mean, seeing something like that, knowing knowing the history about asking, you know, piques my curiosity. So a collector is to sing a large show like Baltimore. They stepped into the room in the first day. What advice would you give them for making the most of it?
John Brush:Get there as soon as you can. So if you're there, you know, at noon on Thursday when they're letting the public in, that's the best. The earlier you get there, the more coins you're gonna see, the more items available for sale, the fresher the coins, you're kinda getting the earlier shot. The first day you can get there and kind of walk around I'm a collector. I grew up collecting coins.
John Brush:So I would take if there was a program for the show now it was way before the Internet, but now I look at the Internet and figure out, okay. Who's gonna be at the show? What table are they gonna be at? Who are the five people that I need to make sure I go see just before the at the beginning of the show? You know, Cabbage Coin.
John Brush:I wanna go look and see where Tony is over on the right side and make sure I go look and see what he has in his case there, and and outline, like, the four places that I wanna go. And if they had coins that on their website that I wanted to see, I've asked them to bring the coin with them so I can go look at it. So if I'm giving Tony a call, Hey, I want to see that proof 2¢ piece. I'm going to come by there and look at it first because I don't want to hold you from selling it to someone else, but I also don't wanna miss out on the coin. So doing as much homework as you can on the front end before you go is always ideal.
John Brush:Sometimes you just show up at a coin show, and you don't even know who's gonna be there. So when I do that, you know, one of my hobbies is my son Wes loves coin shows too, but from the collector side of things as well. I mean, he works here in the office, but he's a real collector, collects silver commemoratives. But I like to show up at small coin shows, not for DLRC. Just like walking in, you know, wearing a hat.
John Brush:You know? I'm not a celebrity, but I don't want anyone to really realize I'm with DLRC. I just like to walk in and just look at people's coins and see what they have in their cases. And I like to make a round, all the way around, and make sure I catch everything really quickly with a quick glimpse. And if there's people in the way that I can't see in one case, I'll come back to it.
John Brush:But I like to make a quick circle around everybody, see what they have, and then figure out what tables I want to go back to to see what they have. I'll write them down on a piece of paper, or I'll pick up a business card and make a quick note saying, I got to come back to this table. But, you know, getting there early, doing as much homework as possible on the front end, and getting a quick glimpse of everything, that's always kind of my focus. I also like to you know, when I'm at a show at DRC, like the Baltimore show, I do all of that first. I walk around.
John Brush:I see all the dealers. I see everything I wanna see first. But I also wanna wait till the end of the show, and before I leave, I wanna walk around and get the feel of the coin show. Like, I walked around towards the Whitman booth, the grading services all the way in the back left corner at the show, just to kinda get the feel. And I there's a waiting room that PCGS had in front of their booth, which I thought was really cool.
John Brush:It's like, oh, that's a great idea. They're so busy. They have a lobby area over there set up for people to fill out their forms on tables and sitting there. I'm like, I just like getting the feel of the coin show and seeing what's new. Then at the end of that, I walk around and just talk to all my friends, the people that I didn't get to see.
John Brush:Because when you've been in this business for a while, you get to know everybody. And I might not get to stop and talk to Tony for a long time at this show, but there's also people from the West Coast that I see three times a year, and I wanna go over and speak to them. So I just kind of try to I like to carry on any conversation and see what's going on with everybody, so it's a chance to catch up with old friends. But, you know, if you're, you know, getting there early, scoping out the show, looking for the specialties that you're looking for, and then walking by the US Mint booth. It's it's such an experience that the the big coin shows are so huge.
John Brush:I mean, Baltimore is one, but then you go to a fun show or an ANA show, and that's overwhelming. Yeah. But they're fun. I mean, don't want to ever get into the fact that going to a coin show is not fun. That's kind of what I always tell collectors, make sure you're enjoying it, make sure you're seeing what you want to see, and don't go to the Mint to buy and flop the latest release because we're not there just to make a few dollars.
John Brush:Hey, that's wonderful. That's nice. But enjoy the experience of the coin show. See what's out there. Look at all the coins you can.
John Brush:I mean, that's the fun part of seeing the coins.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, I like what you said there about having a little bit of a lineup of who you're gonna go see before you go by taking a look at some of your favorite dealers websites and asking to see if they can bring it to the show or get a chance to take a look at it in person, but look a lot different, look a lot better, you know, in hand and getting an opportunity to get a first crack, so to speak, at the show of of the thing, I think, is a is a very smart move. What are some what are some common mistakes you see collectors make when buying or selling at shows?
John Brush:Oh, man. The the most common mistake is is buyers. Remorse, not that they bought something, but missing out. Sometimes you walk up to a table and you're like, That was a coin. You saw it, you're like and then they say, Oh, but I haven't looked at the rest of the boards for.
John Brush:I need to go walk around and see the rest of it. And inevitably, that coin's gone by the time they come back. And, you know, it's frustrating, and I feel bad for them because I'm like, I know, but it's hard to sometimes you want to see everything, but sometimes when the right coin is in front of you, if it's $10 too much or sometimes it's substantially too much, you find the right coin. Sometimes you have to you sometimes you have to buy the right coin. Yeah.
John Brush:No matter what the price is, you find it and you know it's the right one, don't second guess yourself. I'm the king of second guessing. You know, when I'm buying coins and if I'm making a pile of coins, I'll go through a box of coins, and I have the ones I know I'm going to buy, and then I make the stack over here the coins I'm thinking about. You know? So, for me, I can sit there and I can still stare at them and then make the decision by the end.
John Brush:Like, I know I paid a little bit too much, but I want this coin. Sometimes you just have to do that and you have to stretch your willingness a little bit. And it's your pocketbook doesn't like it, but in the end, often, it that's the coin that you that you don't wanna miss out on.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. There is some quote that I know q David Bowers made that I've seen in publication. I think he nailed it perfectly. I want to see if I can research and find it for show. The And it's something to do with the fact that, you know, the feeling of saving a little bit of money goes away quickly, or it's not as, important as the long lasting sense of the satisfaction you get from buying the right coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I forgot exactly what it was, what it was I'm not doing it
John Brush:I know the quote you're saying too, but you're right. I, the gist is important. Know, that's exactly the concept. Awesome.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, for those who want to learn more about DLRC, you guys are kind of everywhere. For those who don't know though, where can they find you online and follow your auctions or inventory updates?
John Brush:Go to davidlawrence.com or dlrcauctions.com. We send out a fun email every week on Thursday called Coins We Love, and it's kind of an email blog that we kind of talk about our travels or what's going on. If you don't want to read about the coins, don't read about them. But we kind of try to share a little bit about what it's like being a coin dealer and traveling all over the place or what collections are going on. It's all about the hobby.
John Brush:We have so much fun with this. Serving the hobby is so important here. And you know, part of our passion is that we want the hobby to grow. We love buying and selling of coins. It's such a wonderful hobby and we have a lot of fun with it.
John Brush:And don't ever be hesitant to reach out or say hello if you're at a show. I mean, that's why we're there. It's it's all about the relationships and the coin. So it's it's so much fun.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Any final thoughts for collectors heading into New Year?
John Brush:Oh my goodness. There are some really cool auctions coming up. There's some really neat items that are coming up in some auctions in December and January, so keep your eyes open for those. Be shy about stepping up when you see something that's really cool. But then keep in mind, January when the fun show comes around.
John Brush:If you haven't been to a coin show and you live up in the North and it's cold and snowy, come to Orlando in January the first week at the fun show. It kind of starts the year off right on the coin side of things, but it's a fantastic show. It's a lot of fun, and come see Tony and I and say hello. I mean, you know, these big coin events, I mean, that's our next really big coin show. And Yeah.
John Brush:It's it's one of the highlights of the year, but, yeah, we'd love to see you there. But definitely try to hit up some hit up one of these big shows every year. It's it's it's worth the you know, we used to take family vacations at coin shows. Not everybody's gonna do that. I get that.
John Brush:Yeah. My wife would not like that now. But growing up, seeing these things, it it it opens up a whole new world of of opportunities.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. If there's one thing going into the year that I'd encourage folks out there to do, I'm going say something very specific when that is to start a registry set. Start a registry set, PCGS registry set. I'm assuming you can start one with some of the other grading services as well, but PCGS is a great opportunity. And I think it gives a sense of purpose and direction for your collecting for the upcoming year.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And I think that you're going to start on a journey that is going to take you to a variety of different coin shows. It's going to give you a reason to travel. It's going to give you a sense of purpose to build this set and then compete against other collectors. I think it really opens up the doors to understanding the hobby, understanding auctions, understanding how to pay up for quality coins that are going to allow your set to do really well. And yeah, I think that's just one thing that I would encourage folks, very specific advice for the upcoming year.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So, all right, John, thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. I will, I guess I'll be seeing you at the fun show and, and I'll look forward to that, that PNG application.
John Brush:Sounds good, Tony. Thanks so much for having me. Really appreciate it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:All right. See you. Take
John Brush:care. Bye bye.
