Ep.21 - Late Date Large Cents Tips and Tricks with Matt Misewicz #coincollecting #coin #numismatics
Hey, folks. Welcome back to the Cabbage Coins podcast. I'm super excited to do another episode with you guys tonight. So for today, we have a special guest. This is Matthew Mesowitz and Matthew leads a Instagram page called Cackling Copper.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And I was in need of a podcast guest just a couple of days ago. I said, you know, who's going to be this week? Matthew, he reached out to me in Instagram and said, Hey, I'd love to do an episode on late date copper scents. That's my area of focus. It's my specialty.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I said, Yeah, definitely keep in mind and we'll do an episode at some point. And then I looked at his Instagram this past weekend and I said, These are incredible pictures, incredible visuals. I think these are going to be fantastic for doing some educational kind of content for folks out there. And so let's go ahead and let's get an episode done. Matthew's super gracious to get me in the schedule.
Tony Gryckiewicz:He is a graduate student at University of Wisconsin. And Matt, what's your grad degree in?
Matt Misewicz:I'm currently studying, well, my master's degree I'm getting my master's degree in natural resources, but I'm studying geese up in Western Alaska currently. So I do research, in the summers up there and in the off season from August to April, doing all sorts of, you know, writing and statistical analysis on population trends and and all sorts of stuff across the board. So definitely an an out there career, not super common, but it doesn't feel like work a day that I go and do it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Before we get into the coins, I'm really interested. How did you get into that particular line of work or that field study?
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. So I grew up doing everything outdoors and, you know, with how things are going lately, you know, we're seeing a lot of, declines in bird populations and waterfowl populations, ducks and geese. And these are very important to certain groups of people, so kind of realizing there's a career path to study and make strides in conservation to help some of these individuals out in the long run. So, you know, my kids and many generations of people can enjoy them as well. That's why I'm doing it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. That's super cool. I'm kind of envious. That sounds like an amazing way to spend your time and especially you can make career out of it. This is something that's super interesting.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I see geese walking around local locally here when I go for some hikes. I live near a corporate park and there's some lakes and there's a bunch of geese always around. I might send you some pictures down the road. Yeah. What are these guys doing?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Tell me what he can tell me about these geese.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's that's actually where my my Instagram handle originated from was cackling is the front half of a, of a goose name of the cackling goose. That's my focal species that I research up in Alaska.
Matt Misewicz:I call it cackling copper.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Wow. Well, how long do you spend up in Alaska? I promise we're going to get the coins, I swear, but this is just super interesting to me. So how long do you spend up in Alaska for these, these trips you do for research?
Matt Misewicz:So we generally will deploy in late April, early May, and it's pretty much off the grid living. We have no electricity, no running water. We bring everything out to the Western Alaska Coast on the Yukon Delta. So it's about maybe about halfway up in the state of Alaska all the way to the western edge till you hit the Bering Sea. We spend from May, June, July up there and doing research on these geese from the time they arrive on the breeding grounds to the time they depart and raise their young.
Matt Misewicz:So we're spending, you know, upwards of three months up there just immersed in it. We bring everything out, build everything from the ground up. Like it's, it's pretty strenuous, but it's, it's man, I can't explain anything. It's more enjoyable for sure.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That's pretty incredible. There was a period of time that I spent, doing, horse packing trips up in the Wind River Mountains of Wyoming. And it was a very rugged, experience. And I did that for a better part of a summer and a fall. That was pretty incredible, but I'm very envious.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So I do want to get into the coin. Of course, this is a coin podcast. But what first you got into coin collecting? How did you eventually narrow your focus over to late date large sense?
Matt Misewicz:So it was about, I would have to say it was about four to five years ago. I have you know, I haven't been in this very long, but about four to five years ago, I was was developing an interest in metal detecting with a friend of mine and was really big big into finding coins, you know, at old structures and stuff like that. So that kind of is where the the love for, like, the coin part of it, like, history. But, as that developed, I started to go out and research different kinds of of US you know, old US coins and different types and finding out about 2¢, 3¢, all the things that we don't have today. And I went out to a pawn shop, a local pawn shop in Illinois, which has since closed, unfortunately.
Matt Misewicz:But, he would offer like, he had guys coming in bringing him stuff that I think was he was liquidating an estate. And I would I would buy these coins from they were in pretty nice shape, at least I I had thought so at the time. And I just found so much enjoyment in looking at and holding something in my hands that was a circulated piece of US coin and currency that was just was was awesome. And I got so much enjoyment out of that, which eventually funneled down to the large scent and in which that's where I bought my first large scent was at this Saint Pawn shop.
Tony Gryckiewicz:You've been a real you've a real appreciation for copper and copper enthusiasts. They're a segment of this hobby that's all really interesting stuff to me, and I'd love to pick your brain a little bit. We're going to look at some examples of your collection. What caused you to gravitate towards collecting copper specifically?
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. It was probably that the first large sum I bought was an 1857 small date. It was a Nukem one. I didn't know that at the time. I had it, and I was looking at it, and the details were so nice.
Matt Misewicz:It was a super clean coin. It was mainly the profile of Liberty. I just found some sort of perfection in it. Looking at other profiles of Liberty, like, when while I was doing this, like, beginner collecting, I just you know, I didn't think anything was as attractive as a braided hair large scent. And for whatever reason, I just I just kinda fell in love with the the profile design and the reverse design.
Matt Misewicz:It's just so simple, but it's just such a staple in displaying one scent with a wreath. And, yeah, it's just, to me, was perfect, honestly.
Tony Gryckiewicz:What is, what would you say is the overall vision for or goal for your collection? Are you aiming for, like, a full date set? Are you trying to do some varieties, or like a set of, like, top quality examples? Kind of what's the what's the vision?
Matt Misewicz:Right now, trying to find the most feasible way to do this, I think just collecting a date set with major varieties. So 1839, head of 40, all the way through 1857, including things like 1847, small or large over small seven, eighteen fifty one over 81, things like that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:What would you say is your personal definition of a great late date large scent? What characteristics matter most to you?
Matt Misewicz:Eye appeal is gotta be the number one.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And,
Matt Misewicz:you know, there's there's that's the reason you collect it is. If it has good eye appeal, that's what makes a good scent to whoever's collecting it, honestly. It's, you know, whether you're looking for a uncirculated example on the highest grade with the most detail and the best luster or if you're looking for a a circulated example that has a little bit of wear that you just find very appealing to look at, that's, That's how I found my love for the set was a circulated example that just was really nice to me at the time.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Let's go ahead and get started with our presentation. I'm going to go ahead and pull this up. Okay. So I ordered these in the numerical order in the date order. So we get started here with this 1839.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This is called a booby head. Do you know why they call it that? I don't know.
Matt Misewicz:So it has to do with the way that the bust kind of is related to the lower curl. It was supposed to mimic like, you know, like the breast of liberty. I think that relative to the other heads of 1839, there's the silly head, there's the benign over 36, so it's the head of 38. There is the head of 38 that's dated 1839. Then there's the petite head, which is what we see carrying on from 1840 through 1843.
Matt Misewicz:And then we kind of shift to the mature head, which starts late in 1843 and moves all the way till 1857.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This particular example, I just I absolutely love the color in this coin. So what caused you to select this coin for your collection?
Matt Misewicz:So this one, this is starting off on a on a great note because this I bought completely blindsided. And this is also the the most valuable coin that I own. So I bought this at an auction. I bought it basically sight unseen. The pictures were very bad.
Matt Misewicz:It was in a basement holder. It was graded MS 65 plus.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay.
Matt Misewicz:And I figured, you know what? I need I would love a booby head. I especially a nice one. I'm gonna bid on it. So I ended up, full disclosure, I ended up paying $660 for this thing shipped to me.
Matt Misewicz:It took me like two months to get it from this kind of shady auction house, and I ended up getting it. And I was looking at it, and I see this distinct die crack that goes from star four through the nose there. And I'm like, oh, so this is what this is kind of the coin that really jumpstarted me on different dye varieties. So this is what we like to call a Nukem 12, which is on the rarity scale. It's a high rarity four.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay.
Matt Misewicz:Which means there are not many surviving known examples of this diet pairing for eighteen thirty nine booby heads. So this is this coin has been in hiding for however many years. It's been undiscovered. It's been unknown to the early American coppers community. This is an extremely valuable coin that I broke it out of the, the holder that it was in, and I sent it into PCGS, and they created it, a 58, which, you know, I couldn't ask for anything else.
Matt Misewicz:It's it's the coin itself here is just it's such an important coin. So I to give a shout out to Mark Klein with EAC, a fellow EAC member. He's the eighteen thirty nine master, and he helped me with identifying this dye pairing. So this coin is just it's kind of a one off in my collection, but it really plays a massive role in my love for attributing dye varieties to large scents and yeah. Especially with one as as rare as as this.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, it's an incredible coin. And so EAC, for those who don't know, is the early American Koppers Club. It's one of the most prolific coin clubs, I believe, in the country. Right?
Matt Misewicz:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's very long standing. I'm member number 7102 is my EAC number.
Matt Misewicz:So I'm guessing there is 7101 members under me.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Sure.
Matt Misewicz:I know there's many guys that are just that have been a member for so long, longer than I've been alive, obviously, and double my lifetime.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So in the case of your story, it turns out this is actually a pretty rare coin. So you got one on the shady auction companies. Yep. That's great. Yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That's because if you saw the episode we did on the coin horror stories, almost all of those for the for the Halloween special, I was dressed up as a ghabagool. The story during that podcast was all about a lot of coins purchased in some of those kind of auctions, those online auctions that did not turn out to be nearly what they were purported to be or what the people who bid on them hoped them to be based on how they were advertised. And in this particular case, you found a really rare coin that ended up working out pretty well for you.
Matt Misewicz:I guess this is like playing the lottery in some sense. I'm I'm up, so I'm I'm done there. And obviously with where I'm at now, I I have no use to be, you know, buying stuff sight unseen, but this was an exception, which is I'm happy.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. So moving on to this $18.40. I mean, looks like a mint state example of me. I I love the Mint Frost that is on the coin. It is a brown example, $18.40.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This is a different I I noticed for sure we have a whole different hair curl down here. So first off, what Liberty head is this one? And then what else, what else you want to tell us about this one?
Matt Misewicz:So this is, this is just a very really nice example of a Nukem 12. This is also a Nukem 12, but obviously this is a completely different date, completely different dye pairing. But this is known as the petite head. This is the earliest stage of the braided hair scent profile. So this profile you'll see on coins dated from 1840 to 1843.
Matt Misewicz:They also had this style head on 1839. That's like I mentioned before, this specific coin is I thought it was very lovely. The mint stamped a small date and a large date, and there are multiple different varieties for each, the small date and the large date. I would say that the small date tends to be a little bit more scarce, but overall, I mean, finding any petite head in this condition is really tough. You don't see many in this condition.
Matt Misewicz:So it's a very, very lovely coin. I think the surfaces are nice. There's a little bit of original color in Liberty and on the reverse, around, you know, some of the protected areas. But overall, yeah, very, very pleasing to the eye.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. So we're going to divert course just for a second. I'd love to ask you this question, which is how do you get a picture this nice?
Matt Misewicz:Oh, yeah. It's it's been trial and error. So I I've worked with axial lighting. I worked with main beam lighting. I've worked with tripods and trying to so I'm a I guess I should preface, I photograph everything in my line of work, so ducks and geese and everything.
Matt Misewicz:So I also have a passion for coin photography and trying to figure out it's like a puzzle that usually the puzzle pieces don't fit together, but trying to make something work in the correct light and having two direct light sources on the coin to highlight the luster and also get the profile outlined nicely. Yeah. It's just a it's a game of trial and error. It's it's it's interesting.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, I sometimes gravitate away from copper specifically because I have a tough time photographing it. And with my business, a lot of this job in doing this business is marketing coins and putting getting nice pictures of them. So I might need to ask you after the podcast how you do some of this stuff. Maybe you can share a couple of your insider and some of the secrets with me. So let me just take a gander at or or guess here what our grade might be.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I feel like this coin is a min state 66 brown. That would be what I would put this thing at. Maybe even a 66 plus or even it's it's it's nice.
Matt Misewicz:I've sent a small sample of my coins to CAT grading recently to I'm I'm ultimately planning on sending my entire collection there, but I I was kinda I sent a few coins as a trial run, and this was one of those coins. This was previously in a PCGS MS 63 holder. I felt it was better, and I felt that felt that there was some conservation that could be done. And I treated this coin with blue ribbon and very, very, very fine brush. You know, it's I think it's made out of, like, the finest horsehair, and you can you can treat surface level gunk that reveals hidden luster that's kind of built up over this coin since it's been in a holder for, you know, however many years.
Matt Misewicz:Okay. And so, I I I ended up getting this coin in a MS 64 CAC holder, and I was I was very, very pleased with that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, this just goes to show first off that I I do not know how to grade copper whatsoever. Yeah. You know, talking about the conservation of copper, I know we're only on our second coin here of a few, but I don't know. I mean, do you want to mention just a little bit about the the the concept behind conserving copper? There's a lot of talk in this program about clean coins and this one of the number one topic that I hear from customers is about coins that are clean and how to identify cleaning and so on and so forth.
Tony Gryckiewicz:When we're talking about conserving copper, we're not necessarily talking about cleaning it, but in a way we are talking about removing gunk and things from the surface. How would you describe cop conservation of coins, specifically as it relates here to copper?
Matt Misewicz:I wanna start by saying there's a fine line between cleaning and conservation. And we obviously want to avoid cleaning anything. We don't want to be exposing any unnatural surfaces. We want to be essentially highlighting the surfaces that are there and what the potential of the coin is given its originality.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. What we're talking about here is stuff that's on the surface of the coin that is built up over decades and decades of either storage or use, gunk that is foreign to the coin itself. And so conservation is about removing or as delicately as absolutely possible, those foreign substances that should not be on the coin in order to reveal the coin beneath. It's, I mean, I would like it in some ways, I'm sure to conserving a painting or something that has a variety of types of damage that has occurred to, let's say a famous work of art and so forth, a conservationist is going to try to remove whatever that has deteriorated the image and bring back the original kind of image, you know, back to life. I think it's, you know, there's again a fine line with all of this stuff because there's also, you know, coin doctoring and there's also trying to fix it, which is a whole different kind of category where you are trying to fix problems on the coin, which is very different from a conservation approach, you know, which is what we're talking about here.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Would you agree? Yeah,
Matt Misewicz:absolutely. Yeah. Don't think you could have said that any better. Was perfect.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. So we have an 1843. This looks like a brown example that has a little bit of red here, kinda snuggling up against our devices. So why did you select this one for your collections?
Matt Misewicz:I just thought it was very lovely. It's kinda has wood grain surfaces running, you know, horizontally across the the fields and into the profile. And, again, any, petite head profile that I can get with any sort of remaining mint red is, wonderful. And while you're zooming in up there, I I had noticed when I I had saw this coin, it's a Nukem eight, and you can tell it's a nucum eight by the dye lines that are right above the stars. You can kind of see the diagonal dye lines right above the profile and right above the stars, and that's a pretty good telltale for a Nukem eight, which is a rarity three.
Matt Misewicz:If you remember, we were talking about rarity numbers. So again, this is a coin in which there aren't many mint state survivors. So that was definitely a good buying point for me. And then also this coin just has a great prominence. It was just a part of the Hall of Fame collection of late dates that was recently sold by EarlySense Auctions.
Matt Misewicz:It's Fred Borysherd's collection. I think I'm pronouncing that right. He had just an astonishing collection of late dates and buying into this coin and having Fred's provenance as well as mine is just another part of why I chose this one. I just think it's lovely. The luster is fantastic.
Matt Misewicz:There's no wear on the coin at all. It's really nice.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So when you have a coin like this, specifically, some of the main things you look for typically in coins, this is going to come up again and again, as we do these series of like, what to look for in various series of US coins is, always look for luster and of course, I appeal and strike is always up on the list. So for you, what are the key points of the strike that are make or break, you know, points that you look for in coins?
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. So it's
Tony Gryckiewicz:I think you said yeah, go ahead.
Matt Misewicz:It's that ear and then so the main curl towards the bottom, right underneath the profile. Yep. So you'll the these these are the highest points of the coin. And so you'll see wear on these generally. Especially, I guess the highest points of the coin are the ear and the main curl right underneath.
Matt Misewicz:Yep. Like, right on the forehead, I should say. Sorry for the main main curl twice, but
Tony Gryckiewicz:yeah. How important to you are the the striking of the stars? Like, this particular star up here is not too well struck. How important is that to you in selecting these? But this one on here is very well struck.
Matt Misewicz:I would say in certain examples, it's nice to have. It's never not nice to have. But in examples like this, I don't I don't take into consideration, you know, all the stars are fully struck, only because this is a die state a middle die state coin. So there's gonna be some die wear going on. And generally, you start to see die wear going on in the stars kind of narrowing down to the center of the profile.
Matt Misewicz:And, that's probably just what's happening here. And it just has to do with the strike, I think. To me, it doesn't that's the least the thing that's going to take away from my appeal the least,
Tony Gryckiewicz:I think. Alright. Let's move moving on here to eighteen forty five. I definitely noticed. I mean, obviously, we have a very different looking head here to liberty than the I previous do really do like this coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This coin is interesting in the sense of the device here of Liberty's head is very brown, but then we have some more kind of different color red and browns kind of here through the periphery. Creates a nice little cameo look honestly to the coin. So yeah. Tell tell us about this one. I mean, is very well struck.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. So if you if you look at the ear there and and you refer back to the previous coin, you can notice there's a little bit of flatness on this ear,
Tony Gryckiewicz:which I
Matt Misewicz:mean, I don't it's subtle, but I mean, it's just things that you look for when you see a lot of high grade examples is, and whether this is a strike thing, whether this is, if it was like slid on a surface back in the 1850s, I'm not sure, but it's, you know, it's one of those things that just stands out. Overall, this coin is I think it's lovely. It has some bag marks to it, which I I do find some attraction in, like, a a very eye appealing kind of circulated look coin. Yeah. I think it was in a '62 NGC 60 2 holder, 62 brown, and there's a a couple spots on it, some marks on the profile.
Matt Misewicz:But, generally, I think it's like a mid common dye variety. So it's a Newcomb six, which I think is a rarity, high rarity two. So there's quite a few examples in mint state, but overall, I really like the eye appeal. And this being in early dye state, again, like you said, offers that like cameo look. So the fields are quite reflective on this piece and the eye appeal.
Matt Misewicz:I mean, the luster is just yeah. It's it's blinding, honestly. So it's it's a very nice piece.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. This is a very pleasing, very satisfying coin, and this is not not that high grade. I mean, so is this still in that 62? Was it red brown or 62 brown? Probably brown.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. It was in a brown holder. I had I had broken it out. I have it currently stored in a, let's see, polyethylene bag inside of a cotton liner inside of a non sulfur paper flip. So that is Bill I mean, Bill Eckberg, give a a shout out to Bill, which is a past EAC president.
Matt Misewicz:He's got a great video on copper conservation and and copper storage. So if you wanna store your coins without them, you know, changing this the surface since copper is very reactive to the environment, keeping them inside of, like, inert materials in order to keep them the best looking. That's that's how I store my coins that are raw.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Nice. Nice. Alright. So as we move on here, it's $18.49. This, I'm guessing, is a pretty is some kind of a rare die variety or something here of this particular coin.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. Right? Over I mean, at first look, at first glance, it's I think most people would say it's probably the least high appealing coin so far.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I don't want to trash a coin. Don't want to yeah. Say Yeah. So I figured it was probably special for a particular reason. So anyways, go ahead.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. And it's not super rare. It's a it's a Newcomb 29. It's a rarity too, but this is this coin is semi proof like fields. It's, again, it's an early dye state.
Matt Misewicz:It has wonderful luster here, and this came out of the same sale as my 1843. I really liked the kind of even, like, and olive that were on the majority of the surfaces and in the fields. The fields are quite clean. There's a couple nicks and then remnants of a planchette slag, which is kind of interesting, an interesting kind of phenomenon. Yeah.
Matt Misewicz:Tell us
Tony Gryckiewicz:a little
Matt Misewicz:bit about that. Yeah. That and then there's remnants of it right underneath the star, kind of like a lighter version of the slag right above Liberty. You mean this? Those like cheap yeah.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. So those are shallow slags. And what this is essentially is when the copper rounds are made, and this this might be wrong, but if I'm remembering correctly, when the copper rounds are made, they're in in cut and, you know, struck, there there's some sort of material that builds up, like burnt off material that builds up at the top of the pot in which they're making the copper rounds to strike these coins. And I guess it's essentially like it's considered a mint error, maybe, or like a planchet flaw to whereas all this is is just air bubbles essentially inside of the copper round that weren't treated when like that stuff was taken off of the top when the copper rounds were made. So if you go to the back, there's even more extensive plantar slag all around America to the right and to the left.
Matt Misewicz:Oh, So you can see all of it. There's essentially just like air built up underneath there, and it when they strike the coin, it just, like, pops out and and just flakes off essentially.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Oh, wow.
Matt Misewicz:So, yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon. I don't know a ton about it. I guess I'm just going off of memory on some But, of yeah, I think it's kind of cool. You know, it's a story behind the coin. Definitely.
Matt Misewicz:Also, yeah, this coin also traces back to the 1980s, the provenance traces back to the '80s, Jerry Bobby. Ted Knavsker also a massive name in copper coins. I mean, this was one of Ted's coins. So, yeah, it's just great to own and great to add my name to the providence. And then obviously following Ted was Fred.
Matt Misewicz:So, yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. So moving on to this $18.52 large cent. And so let me just compare our heads here compared to that's the same. I think it was the same head. Yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:It's the same head. Yep. This is a pretty pretty coin. This has got to be considered a a red coin. Right?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Or no?
Matt Misewicz:The this one is this was in a 64 brown PCGS holder. And Okay. This was yeah. This was a and I do think I think it's a brown coin by grading standards With the way that PCGS and subspecifies 5% red in order to be a red brown coin, not many places live up to that, but this has, I would say, 5% red within the obverse and reverse. But this coin is wonderful.
Matt Misewicz:I attributed this as a Nukem 20. And so it's a 1852 Nukem 20. It's currently I believe it's the finest known example of a Nukem 20. And the reason I cracked it is because there was a lot of conservation that could be done to this coin. Was a lot of hidden luster.
Matt Misewicz:There was kind of a it was in an old blue PCGS holder. This coin just had some grime that was just building up along each and every crevice of the profile and especially on the reverse. So treating that crud really brought the luster out to what it should be. And I really think it it made a great preservation layer for this coin as well.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Nice. Well, for the sake of time, I'm gonna keep moving here.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. Please.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Moving on here to our to our 1854, and so this coin has definitely got some considerable mint red on it.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, this coin is again, it's another finest known example. This is an early die state, die state a in Nukem 16. Okay.
Matt Misewicz:This is a high rarity three, so it's a rare example as well. There were previously no mint state examples of this coin or no mint state examples of this coin possessing any original amount of red until I found this one and attributed it to a Nukem 16. And I guess the only fun tidbit I have on this other than being probably tied for my favorite coin is that it's in an original OGH Rattler. It's a really Very cool. Yeah.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. Very, very cool coin. And just the holder just makes it makes it that much more cool, think.
Tony Gryckiewicz:You rarely see these coins in Rattler holders. And for those who don't know what that is, we're talking about the first generation PCGS holders that are just kind of old. I'll throw up an image of of one on the screen here, but they're called rattlers because the for some coins in in in some series, there's a tiny ever so slight clearance between the coin and the plastic, and so when you shake them, they rattle. They have the nickname as rattlers rattlers. So, yeah, you rarely see these in rattlers.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I mean, how many large scents do you ever come across in a rattler holder?
Matt Misewicz:Not a lot. And usually the ones that I do come across, they they need conservation. Like, there's gunk buildup. And the funny thing about this coin is that it doesn't rattle. So it's a rattler that doesn't rattle.
Matt Misewicz:And so it's probably just got the perfect amount of airlock in there to keep the color honest to the grade. And yeah, this is a phenomenal example.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So you were mentioning how none of these were previously known until you found one. Can I ask you how you found it?
Matt Misewicz:I think there's a large amount of these coins that are unattributed out there. And this was before PCGS was assigning Nukem varieties on the label. So obviously, the at the the OGH stage, they weren't really adding the variety attribution to the label. There's a lot of coins out there that are unattributed. And I find a lot of joy in attributing these coins.
Matt Misewicz:And I've I've studied Bob Grellman's book of of late dates and his attribution guide, and and that's something I would recommend as well, and we could talk about that later. But, yeah, that is just an essential resource for finding rare die pairings like this one.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So there's a lot of gold out there, folks. Keep hunting at your local coin shows, coins that aren't older holders that are not attributed. We don't know what varieties are they are and what dye pairings and dye states and so on and so forth. Might stumble upon the next finest known of, of whatever it is, a late date large scent at your local coin show. Make a lot of money essentially.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. All right. So it's $18.55. I do see a little bit of a planetary fly, I guess right there where that star should be. And to me, this comes out I have trouble with colors.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Mhmm. This comes across to me as a as a bit of a green kinda color to this coin. Am I mistaken there, or what am I what am I looking at?
Matt Misewicz:No. Not at all. It it is I think this is a a good descriptor of this coin is is light olive. Okay. I'm not, like, not wonderful on the the color descriptors of early American coppers, but in the early American copper grading guide, as EAC members have that, They have a diagram of every single color that these coins can turn.
Matt Misewicz:And so this is like a light olive, typical light olive color. And so this coin is the most proof like coin that I I own and that I have ever I've I've ever seen. I've seen proof examples of large cents that are less proof proof like than this coin. It's the pictures don't really show it only because of, like, the axial lighting used to to photograph this specific coin. But if you take a a different tilt to the lighting, which I probably could or should send you, it just highlights the the it looks like a proof essentially.
Matt Misewicz:And it's a really, really early die state coin. I think it's called the 12 star variety. And so there's 12 Because
Tony Gryckiewicz:it was a missing star here.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. And so what it was is there was something clogging that star when they struck it. And so there's many examples known with this little star missing right above liberty, and it's known as the I think it's a 12 star or 11 star obverse.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I see.
Matt Misewicz:Need to count my stars.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Because 13 stars probably represent 13 colonies, 13 original colonies. Absolutely. Last but certainly not least, and another absolutely amazing coin. And I would say one of my favorites here of this little series, because again, we have this incredible cameo effect here of this red right around the devices that you have the you have the brown and then you have the the the main device here in brown and you have this kind of like almost almost looks like light coming out behind miss Liberty's head here.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. So I like it a lot.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah, absolutely. And this is I just have such a soft spot for 1857s because if you think back at this, this was the same style of coin that I bought as my first large cent. I bought an 1857 small date variety, which is what this is. These come in a small date and a larger date variety. So this is a Newcomb two.
Matt Misewicz:Newcomb 2 and Newcomb 4 are the small date varieties. This is just a lovely coin. I bought it from a good friend of mine, Steve Vesley, and he had owned this coin. He thought it was just lovely, and I could not agree more. It's like the combination of this golden hour backlit to Liberty's profile, and then of creeping underneath the date, there's a little bit of like sea green, and then even onto the reverse, it's like there's just a little bit of sea green, and then you get this nice mix of, again, this like golden hour mint mint color that's that's on both sides.
Matt Misewicz:And this was in a this was in an MS 63 holder, and I think it's above that. So let's put it that way. So I I've I have a raw currently and plan on sending it to cat grading.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah, please do. And I would love to find out what it ends up grading at. Here's I'm gonna make my effort here and probably make a mistake here, but I'm gonna say okay. Because I I shot way too high before. The coin is gorgeous, but I just don't I don't know.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Obviously, is a brown. I mean, I'm I'm gonna play it safe, and I'm just gonna say MS 65. I I have to say 65.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. Yeah. I I would love for this to be in a 65 brown keg. I think it could be deserving of that. The other thing I wanna mention too is is eighteen fifty seven's small dates hardly ever come with fully struck stars.
Matt Misewicz:They're always very blunt.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Good to know.
Matt Misewicz:And then same with the top of the the crown there, the the cornet. It's always blunt and bluntly struck even in I mean, there's red examples that exist that are just very blunt. This is talking back to what we were saying before is like, this doesn't take away from the eye appeal in my my eyes. It's just this is just a a beautiful coin overall.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So just to round things out, I've got just a couple questions for you, then we'll wrap. So from your perspective, what are some of the most common mistakes you see collectors make with large scents, especially newcomers to the series?
Matt Misewicz:That's a good question. I, I, my mind immediately goes to, to toning. Recognizing natural versus artificial toning on large scents is very key. There's the EAC grading guide. If you're not an EAC member, I would recommend that you sign up, become an EAC member, educate yourself on grading early American coppers from the EAC scale of grading.
Matt Misewicz:The EAC scale is a little bit different than a traditional third party grading scale, but it's a little harsher. But overall, like, you know, becoming an EAC member, learning the grading scale, and learning the colors that these coins can can turn naturally is is crucial because there's so many coins out there that are they have great eye appeal. They have great luster, but the color is not original. And there's a lot of things nowadays that are transforming the color of these these early coppers that is fooling a lot of people.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Interesting. Well, think I need to become a member of this EAC club just to find out about their grading scale. That's super intriguing to me. Could you give me any brief synopsis or highlights? Like how is the EAC grading scale that much different from a, let's say, PCGS grading scale or CAC?
Matt Misewicz:EAC scale is really, I should say, they take into consideration net grading much more. No details grades, but there's obviously there's a lot of net grading that goes on. Because a good majority, if we're looking at talking about early coppers, a good majority of early copper is details grade because we're talking mass produced since in the eighteen hundreds, which have been underground that have been exposed to rain. The planchets were sitting out next to the factories and, you know, the planchets aren't in good shape, so they have a lot of environmental damage. And so grading these coins at a net grading scale is really kind of essential, I think.
Matt Misewicz:And so, for example, if a coin has, you know, VF details, they would grade the coin a 30 net 15 if there's environmental damage or if there's a scratch or if there's, you know, something going on there that's unnatural to the actual sharpness of the coin. You start to get up into the higher grades, 60 and above is what I try and hold my set to as I try to collect coins above EAC 60 or above. The fine scale differences in mint state coins is really tough.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So can I ask you, where does this become relevant? Because the normal grading scale for like PCGS or CAC or NGC grade grading scale that we use in the marketplace, you know, it gives us an idea, a barometer approximately of how this coin's quality compares relevant to other coins. And then we have price guides. We have auctions. We have a pretty good sense of the coin based upon its numerical grade with this EAC grading scale.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Where is this kind of relevancy? I mean, is the practical purpose of the grading scale? Do you see my do understand my question?
Matt Misewicz:Absolutely. Yeah. And it it solely relies within EAC members, I would say. Okay. Because, you know, for example, you're a dealer, you don't care about an EAC grade.
Matt Misewicz:If it's in an NGC holder, that's graded MS 65. You know? So Yeah. Yeah. Just because a coin is MS 65 or NGC calls a coin MS 65, the EAC grade is not 65.
Matt Misewicz:I would say the majority of coins in 65 holders are floating around EAC MS60. 60 or above. It's a tougher grading scale for sure.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So if I'm smart, I need to learn the EAC grading scale. If I have copper coins in my inventory and they're in a particular holder at a MS65 grade, I can confidently sell the coin to a copper collector and say, is an EAC62 or Yep.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. Absolutely. Because I mean, I've sold coins that I've owned that I've since upgraded and whatnot. And you sell a coin in a 65 holder and it's like, no, I don't care about what the holder says. This isn't a this isn't a 60 coin.
Matt Misewicz:This isn't a 62 coin as far as I'm concerned. There's 65 coins, 64 coins out there that are EAC AU 50.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I see.
Matt Misewicz:And that's just yeah. It's a strict standards, and we like nice coins. So it's yeah. It's tough.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Got it. You need a coin you can take home to mom and dad and say, is this is actually Yeah. Yep. Exactly. 60 or above.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. No. It's cool.
Matt Misewicz:Yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. So, okay. So people out there have questions for you. They want to reach out. They want to get into copper collecting.
Tony Gryckiewicz:They have a coin that they need some help attributing or they just want to pick your brain about something. How can somebody reach out to you and connect?
Matt Misewicz:Yeah. My name's probably will be displayed here. So give me a follow on Facebook or shoot me a message on Facebook. Same with Instagram. It's cacklingcopper.
Matt Misewicz:Check the page out. Message me if you need help attributing a coin. I'd be happy to walk you through some steps on how to attribute them yourself further. And, yeah, I'm always open to, you know, buying anything that's nice.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So Cool. Hey, thank you so much for doing this. It's been it was really great last minute. I really appreciate you Yeah. Helping out, I'm glad I could work out and enjoy Alaska and those ducks.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And I definitely want I plan to stay in touch with you, man. And we'll chat some more in the future and maybe do some business on the road. Get you some
Matt Misewicz:EC So 60 Absolutely. Yeah. Let me know anytime. Yeah. Great talking.
Matt Misewicz:Thanks for having
Tony Gryckiewicz:me. Yep. See you.
