U.S. Mint Designs: Winners and Losers #numismatics #coincollecting #gold #silver #rarecoins
Hello, folks. I am Tony Gryckiewicz, and today, I am being joined by three coin shop owners from all different time zones in The United States. We have... Starting in the central time zone area, we have Mike Nadelman, who is a new misfits at Harlan j Burke in Chicago, Illinois. He's also cohost of the Ancient Coin Podcast with Aaron Burke, and he's also coin...
Tony Gryckiewicz:He's also a cohost of The Coin Show Podcast. We've had him on here, of course, the Cabbage Coins Podcast in in the past. Representing Mountain Time, we have David Tyne of Eagle Coin and Precious Metals. You're out of Eagle, Idaho, I believe. Yep.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And then lastly, while Arizona kind of doesn't have a time zone, it kinda like shares it with the West Coast like parts of the year, I guess, when it wants to. Anyways, we have Ben the Coin Geek. He is the owner of Old Pueblo Coin Exchange, and he's also the coin show guy that's putting together the Tucson coin show in in January. I'm pretty getting pretty excited about going out to that. So welcome guys to Thanks, Tony.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. The channel and doing a collaboration is awesome. So what is going on in the coin shop kind of space over in Eagle, Idaho right now? Are things... Are you guys preparing for winter at this point?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Is there already snow on the ground?
David Tine:No. No. No. No. No snow yet.
David Tine:Actually, it's been beautiful out lately. Finally getting a little bit of that fall weather. Had been in the eighties until a few days ago. Bu
David Tine:t, yeah, in the shop, I'd say stuff has been a little slower lately. I I feel like at least the vibe I'm getting is because bullying has been a little stagnant and kinda going down lately, the vibe I've been getting is people just aren't all that hot on it right now.
David Tine:I think a lot of people got super excited back late last year in January of this year, and that fire has been quenched significantly. So noticing a lot more on the seller side, people selling bullion, and just things have been a little quieter, but, you know, I've got plenty to do, so I stay busy. But, yeah, definitely lot of more bullion coming in the door than going out and people not as excited about gold and silver because it's not going up five, 10% every week like it was late last year. So
Tony Gryckiewicz:So what about down in the fires and the heat of Arizona? Has has the fires been quenched, Ben, The Coin Geek? What's going on in your neck of your
David Tine:woods with pool? Nice it's
Ben TheCoinGeek:been because, you know, the highs are only in the mid nineties. So it's it's fallen Arizona when you can... When, like, when your air conditioning feels like it's working. But the shop's been staying busy. You know, we do a little bit of everything from from the bullion stuff to the collector stuff.
Ben TheCoinGeek:And, you know, Tucson's a pretty big metro area, and so we've we've been staying busy. It's been good, and it's fun. It was... You know, occasionally, we have people who are just passing through town and they heard about the shop from the YouTube channel, so they just wanna come in and see it. So that's always kind of a real cool experience too.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Nice. And so what about the Windy City, Mike? Up there, I could ask you guys the same question about the snow. I mean, Chicago is famous for its winters. Are you guys still seeing the traffic come through the door?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Are people both buying and selling? What has the things been like in over the counter Harlem J. Burke?
Mike Nottelmann:I will tell you that it's been really busy. Busy has been the watchword for us. We've been doing a lot of business in ancients, in regular coins, but we have been selling bullion too. It's funny that it seems there's a... It's fairly slow right now as far as bullion moving.
Mike Nottelmann:But there are people that are coming in selling it steady, and there are a couple other people that are coming in and they're buying it. They're buying it in bulk. So I don't think, you know, this ride is over yet, but I definitely don't think we're going back to where we're.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Well, guys, here's what we got for you guys out there today. So we are... This is gonna be topical. We are going to pick on the US Mint a little bit in this podcast, and we're gonna get started actually talking a little bit about Mint releases because I I feel like this a topic that either love some stuff or you hate it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Everybody has their opinions about what's going on at the US Mint lately from dealer perspective, collector perspective. I love to hear what's going on at Coins shops. And what I thought we could do to get started was I have a number of examples of mid products through the years, probably through the last decade or two. I mean, not not a ton of stuff. One of the things come to mind, can always bring it up on the screen as well.
Tony Gryckiewicz:But I wanna get everyone's opinions about these kind of some of these controversial items that have come up and I thought it'd be fun. We'll see how it goes. I actually thought it'd be fun to kind of go around the room here and ask about what everyone's kind of rating is for the the the coin or the item. This is out of 10, and I guess the way we'll do this is maybe we should do this alphabetically actually. So we should start with with Ben, go to David, go to Mike, and then I'll throw my number up there as well.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So I mean, I have to get started the bell. Right? The $1,719,000 dollar bell or whatever this was.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Can I give it a point five? Is that okay? Does that work? If I was giving honest, zero to to 10 scale, conceptually, I'd probably be on the higher side, so maybe like a seven. There's a whole lot of things that happen around these with the price point and the shipping and stuff that I think has kind of marred what it is, but I'm not I'm not one who hates on the shaped coins.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I know I got a lot of people that don't like but I would probably design wise from the images give it a seven. Execution was maybe something different.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Interesting. Alright. So point five, and and I know this is the half ounce one. This is kind of the best image I could get, but they were the same design, I believe, for the half and the and and the full ounce. So same basic thing.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright, David. What do you think? Out of 10, we have we have a point five out of 10.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I'm keeping it at seven though, Tony. Seven.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Oh, you're... Sorry. You're a seven. Okay. Alright.
Tony Gryckiewicz:The point five, David, what do think?
David Tine:Well, I guess I'd give it a honest like four. Okay. Yeah. I'm not against the shape coin. I think the pricing was something else.
David Tine:The mint mark location is, I think, egregious. They couldn't have hid that any better or put it
Ben TheCoinGeek:Just put it down below the lines.
David Tine:Yeah. Or, I don't know, kinda put it up top where the yoke is, kinda like, on the Franklin half, it was right above the yolk, put it like right at the top. And then the packaging, you know, if someone spends $18,000 $19,000 on an ounce of gold, and they receive it flopping around in a plastic case. I mean, one could say you're gouging your customers and you can't even be bothered to make like a custom plastic insert for the airtight.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Four eyes 10.
David Tine:Of how this coin was put out. So.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. That is fair. Mister Nadelman, what are your thoughts on the the gold belt or
Mike Nottelmann:Love and score Love and hate. Okay. So, I mean, truthfully, I'm with Ben. I think that conceptually, the idea is is interesting, and it's it's something different. It's something new.
Mike Nottelmann:I'm a modern coin guy. Right? I I like it when they try new things and when they do stuff. But their delivery was horrendous in the fact that they didn't make a custom capsule for a $17,000 coin. And stylistically, the mint mark is in a really bad position, and God We Trust is in a really bad position.
Mike Nottelmann:You know, you could have made them part of the whole pass and stow, you know, label on the... I mean, there's so many other things you could have done. They look like they are there to do really what they are there, and that satisfy the legal requirements of the coin. So execution, I don't know if it goes that far. I don't know if I want anybody dead over it, but I would probably on the side of like, I'm more of a four.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Another four out of 10.
Mike Nottelmann:Got two point See, think it's like the coin itself is like a seven, but I'm put... It's like a negative three for all the rest of it. It was just so egregious, and it was just like a big middle finger to everybody is really what I felt like.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Interesting. Nice. Alright. So here are my thoughts. I I think this thing looks like a glorified refrigerator magnet.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I don't like this as a coin. It feels to me like the product of some kind of a committee that said, okay, how do we increase our profit margins? How do we make something special for the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary? You need some thoughts and through some kind of a weird, you know, committee system, they landed on a liberty shaped bell because what's more two fiftieth, you know, what's more America than, I guess, the liberty bell, I guess. But the thought process of, you know, how many coin collectors does this really appeal to?
Tony Gryckiewicz:How do we make this accessible for the average person that's gonna wanna purchase one? Now granted, they did bring out the silver version, you can get an example of the style, but this gold one at the price point and then the poor packaging, this is something that I think there was a bit of a... I mean, I'm just completely guessing here, but maybe a little bit of a money grab to try to take advantage of how, you know, low mintage items in the secondary market end up kind of taking off and trying to take, not miss out on some of that profit themselves possibly. I'd love to hear what the Mint director's opinion was of this one at some point. I...
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. What's up? Yeah. I'm at a three out of 10. Mike, in your conversation with Mr.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Hollis, did you discuss this coin?
Mike Nottelmann:We were so zeroed in on prices and price increases. I mean, kind of took them to task on that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay.
Mike Nottelmann:And I think that was more what people wanted to know, what they wanted to hear.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay.
Mike Nottelmann:So no, I really didn't get into the current releases, but even the silver one on this was egregiously expensive.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. By the way folks, as you're watching out there, if you have comments about any of these coins yourselves, of course the comments are going to be wide open and unadulterated. Please feel free to to throw some stuff below as well as your own ratings of these coins. So we had a four, a two... Sorry, a three, two, fours, and a seven.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. Moving on. So this is an interesting coin. This is something that came out 2014. This was the first time that Mint made a concave design for a coin of the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So Ben, out of 10, do you remember this What do you think about Well,
Ben TheCoinGeek:now I definitely put it too high of a number on that bell because I'm like, well, how high am I supposed to go on this because I clearly like this much more than the belt. This was really a big deal though for the Mint coming out with a domed coin and it actually looks really cool in hand because the concave side is the glove side and the convex side is the ball side. So it actually has the shape of the ball to it a little bit and the shape of the glove on the other side. And so not only did they... They didn't just dome a coin out.
Ben TheCoinGeek:They did it in a way that made sense. It added depth to what the piece was. With all that being said, I guess I should probably recant on my other one at how high I gave it, but let's go with a solid eight on this guy. We're gonna give that an eight. I think it's a great design.
Ben TheCoinGeek:It's a really cool coin, and one of the ones that's actually, I think, somewhat still popular with collectors unlike a lot of the stuff that's come out in the last decade or so.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Alright. Mister Tyne, Idaho.
David Tine:No. I I honestly, I was thinking eight as well. Very cool that the mint did this, and as Ben said, executed fantastically. Really cool effect in hand with the glove, you know, like all concave like that. And the fact that, you know, both the silver dollar and the $5 gold, I mean, they are popular, but they're not like crazy hype.
David Tine:I I don't... I've... I don't remember what these were issued for back in 2014, but nowadays, you can pick these up, especially the gold's pretty close to melt or like at melt. You can buy kind of a cool, you know, something new that the US Mint did and for not much of a premium. I just think it's a it's a solid interesting coin.
David Tine:So, yep, I like them.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. Mister Nauman?
Mike Nottelmann:Honestly, this was innovation and they had to buy a new press in order to make this. I agree with Ben that this is just... It's done well. It's well executed. I never really thought about the glove being on the on the concave part, and it makes so much sense.
Mike Nottelmann:I just always thought about it from the standpoint of the ball, which also makes sense. But if you look, the legends on this coin do everything that I was complaining about the Liberty Bell didn't. They look like they belong. You know? United States Of America across the label, you know, $1, but you go to the glove side and in the heel of the glove is the date, you know, and God We Trust and Liberty are there.
Mike Nottelmann:They're not, you know, pushed out to the edge of the coin. They're not also, you know, just afterthoughts and things like that. They look like they're very integrated into the design. And, yeah, this is this is just a phenomenal coin. I'd have to give this a nine, maybe nine and a half.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Yeah. I'm right there with you. I was I was thinking nine, nine and a half because when I think about this coin, I think about an artist and some of... I mean, an artist has a particular medium that they're trying to figure out, you know, what what to do with.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And sometimes architects and so forth, sometimes they design buildings based upon the settings that they're in, based upon the materials that they have to use, based upon kind of variety of things end up influencing the final design. In this case, I feel like these mint workers, they they came up with a new technology, was the ability to make a curved coin. And they said to themselves, what is the coolest thing we can do to enhance show off the kind of curve nature of this coin? And they completely hit the ball out of the park, no pun intended. They got the baseball correctly on the one side, put United States Of America right where somebody would sign their name, and I mean, it's such a cool placement of what the denomination was right there.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And then they have the catching mitt. I mean, that is perfect for kind of the concave aspect. So I just feel like all aspects of this design catered very well to this new technology of being able to make this curved coin and they just executed on it flawlessly. So I would say 9.5. That's my thoughts in this one.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So interesting. Okay. So moving on to something that did not do that well. So we have this enhanced uncirculated set, a 2017 enhanced uncirculated set. I've never been a fan of sets.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Ben, do you remember this thing and what are your thoughts on
Mike Nottelmann:it?
Ben TheCoinGeek:Oh, not hardly. So the enhanced sets, maybe maybe we should start with Mike here. He can describe it better, but it was like in between... So what they were doing is they were they were highlighting, like, the lettering, and everything had, like, a matte finish, but then the letters and the dates were highlighted. Mike, is that is that accurate?
Mike Nottelmann:No. That's that's absolutely accurate. So the way I would put it is this enhanced uncirculated finish gave them the opportunity to layer the frost so that they could do depth or they could do different types of frost next to each other to highlight things and and point them out. And basically, coins are just a completely matte surface and then all the legends on it, not the image, but the legends only are highlighted and they're shiny. Yeah.
Mike Nottelmann:And that's it.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. And from these images, you can't even tell No. That there's something like what's going on there. So this is probably from the US Mint website or something.
Mike Nottelmann:So this is probably what's born from committees. Right? You It's like they've got this really great technology and it's like they could do anything they want with it and they produce this.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. Go
Tony Gryckiewicz:ahead. Myself included it. The thing that was special about this, Mike, was didn't you say they made a... This is one of these ones where the price kinda went way up and then it crashed? Or
Mike Nottelmann:Well, they sold out on the Mint website, if I'm... If I recall correctly, within like twenty minutes. Because this was before the waiting room. This was when, you the mint was kind of in a fever for certain new products and people would line up to get them and it's great. But the odd thing about it is that...
Mike Nottelmann:So as soon as they sell out, the presales go on eBay and people start selling them for a big premium and they don't even have the sets yet, and then they start getting delivered. And the collective, oh my god, that came from the people that bought them was palpable. I mean, it was just unbelievable because everybody looked on there like, that's not what I wanted. And so they returned these sets on ass. And so the people that that pre bought them on eBay were probably the ones that got hurt the worst because everybody else had an out, and they just returned them to the Mint.
Mike Nottelmann:I think they were for sale until like 2022.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Yeah. And this kind of speaks to one of the aspects of the US Bit website years ago, which was they didn't have this waiting room aspect. So you had speculators, people that would rush in using kind of automated bots. They'd try to buy up as many as they could in order to corner the market out of them and hopefully resell them at a higher price later on.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Since then, The Mint has solved that problem. I think their waiting room system works, you know, pretty well. I don't know if you guys have a, you know, a different opinion about that, but I mean, getting started, guess, Ben, we wanna give we wanna give a grade to these things. What's your... What's your...
Tony Gryckiewicz:This is a two. Nice.
Ben TheCoinGeek:A one would be too
Tony Gryckiewicz:rude. Okay. So not not a huge fan. David, what do you think?
David Tine:Yeah. I mean, I'm not a fan of sets and this set does nothing to me. It doesn't even register on my radar. It doesn't matter.
Mike Nottelmann:They're not even silver.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Oh, wow. Okay. Mike, what's your what's your rank rating on this something like this?
Mike Nottelmann:Can I go negative?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Jeez. Wow. Wow.
Mike Nottelmann:Okay. Mean, what's the lowest rating?
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, it's gonna be... I mean... One or Zero. I guess it could be zero. Alright.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Wow.
Mike Nottelmann:Zero. In the words of Dean from Animal House, 0.0.
Tony Gryckiewicz:0.0. Okay. Well, jeez. Man, it's tough. I mean, I'm just trying to look at...
Tony Gryckiewicz:I don't remember this at all. This is really early when I collecting the subject matter. A lot of these Ozark Riverways
Mike Nottelmann:your mind.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Frederick Douglass, Ellis Island, Effigy Mounds, I don't even know what that is in Iowa. Sorry, folks out in Iowa.
David Tine:Tony, you don't remember the George Rogers Clark quarter?
Mike Nottelmann:Man, that was epic.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I know. And I call myself a coin dealer. My gosh. Jeez. My gosh.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. I don't know. Just let's just move on from that. That is just kind of bad. I I guess I'll give it also give it a a two.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I mean, they tried. They tried, but not well. Okay. So switching gears, hopefully, this was coin of
David Tine:the
Tony Gryckiewicz:year. I can't exactly remember what year it was coin of the year, but it was incredibly a huge success. This coin has really run up, and then it's kinda come back in recent... In the recent months or so in in the secondary market for these. But I guess I heard with you, Ben.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Mean, this was the 2021 high
Ben TheCoinGeek:relief goal. Like a like a good draft. Let's go in reverse order. I mean So So I don't know if it's going reverse. I just let you and you and Mike start on this one.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. Fine. I mean, yeah, in my opinion, this coin, I mean, it's a pretty well executed design. I'll give this an 8.5. I was never in love with this particular design.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I thought it was cool and it was interesting. I got more interested in them once I started to see the secondary market take off for these coins, finding these improved seventies. There was a point high watermark. I wanna say they could sell for around 15,000 and improved 70, I think was a high watermark. Today, I feel like seventies are are selling for like 12.5 maybe, maybe around that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I'm not entirely sure. I got more interested in this coin once I started to see what happened in the secondary market with it. I do think the Eagles a little bit... I mean, it's, I don't know, it's very, very close-up. So what did I say?
Tony Gryckiewicz:I said 7.5 or what what did
Ben TheCoinGeek:I just say? And a half.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Eight and Okay. $8.08 and a half. Yeah. I'll stick with 8 and a half.
Mike Nottelmann:Mike? Oh, absolutely. So here's what I'll tell you about this is from an artistic standpoint, you have a really beautiful coin. The bronco is is bold. You know, the sunset rise, whatever in the background is is really nice.
Mike Nottelmann:Liberty very prominently featured. The eagle on the back is attractive. I wouldn't look at it too long because then you start to notice, you know, all the lines and the feathers and stuff like that. But for the size coin it is, which is about size of a $0.5, it's it's a really, really attractive eagle and a beautiful coin. I would probably put this six.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Six. Only six. Okay. Alright. Fair enough.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Very good. Alright. So going reverse. So David, Dave, what's your thoughts on this? You must see this through the shop.
David Tine:I personally think this is... When these walk in, this is like one of the most excited I get for any modern mid product. I just love the design. It screams Americana, Old West. I love it.
David Tine:So, and yeah, they did perform well and I, you know what, they issued these for like $252,600 And, yeah, if you're now a 69 is a $9,000 coin, and a 70 is a $1,213,000 dollar coin. So it's actually a modern mid product that has performed well for the people that were fortunate enough to buy in on, like, the majority of mid products over time. So David,
Ben TheCoinGeek:do you know what the... Roughly the vintage was on those guys?
David Tine:I don't off the top of my head. I don't think it was anything crazy low, though. It wasn't like a, you know, a couple 100.
Mike Nottelmann:I don't remember it being crazy low, but I don't think it was very high either.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I mean, is it like 15 or 20,000 or something? I guess I could look it up.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Well, when you gave your score, I'll I'll go over look this thing up right now.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. Yeah. Look at the mintage on those. This is interesting for me because I'm I'm, like, super contrarian on this coin, because this to me is... Maybe if I had one on hand, I'd be like, this is really beautiful.
Ben TheCoinGeek:This coin never did anything for me, and I don't wanna get too... What's the word? Pedantic?
Mike Nottelmann:12,500.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Okay. Pretty low mid dip.
Tony Gryckiewicz:There you go.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I think one of the things that I disliked about this coin, and this is like a long term memory thing, is when I read the description from the US Mint, and this this is supposed to be... Represent like the America, like bucking England off. Really? Don't cut that out of context. So, like, I just don't...
Ben TheCoinGeek:Like, when I read that, I was like, oh, man. I instantly started to dislike the coin, because, I mean, it's all about this imagery and symbology is an important part of the coins, and I just didn't like it. And so I'm going like way opposite of you guys. I'm going like three. I just didn't like it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Wow. Interesting.
Ben TheCoinGeek:But it's popular. What am I gonna do? So are the Kardashians.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, okay. So, look, Google search has given me a little bit about the symbolism of this coin. It represents the bucking off of a of a western saddle... A mustang horse bucking off the western saddle, symbolizing rejection of British rule in the spirit of the American revolution represents an untamed, passionate, and resilient spirit of freedom, breaking free from control. It's the colonies casting off the yoke of the British rule during the American revolution.
Mike Nottelmann:I don't really get that from this design.
Ben TheCoinGeek:That... Thank you. And by the way, Mike, remember, this is 2021. So for some historical context, there's like a bigger picture there, I think, for the idea of government bucking. So
Mike Nottelmann:Yeah. Well Yes. Yes, there is.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So, Mike, what what do you think about... Like, okay. This coin performed very, very well in the secondary market it is. It sold for, like David said, around 26... 23, $2,600, something like that when it first came out in 2021.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Then it rose to incredible heights of, you know, hit at one point around $15,000 for a proof 70. Do you think there was any impact made upon the, you know, the US Mint and the committee in terms of what they decide to produce, the pricing of coins as they thought about, okay, here's all of this value here that collectors place on these that we're losing to the secondary market, to dealers. Do you think there was any kind of machinations about that in the... At the committee or, you know, at the Mint when they've changed their prices recently?
Mike Nottelmann:Purely pontificating. I will say that I don't think there's any other... Any doubt that, you know, is what's going on. They looked at the high premiums that people would pay shortly after release and have said, how can we get some of that? And so I'm not a fan.
Mike Nottelmann:I... I've never really been a fan of the flippers either. And things like the, you know, our friend, the enhanced uncirculated set, people getting stuck with those who was kind of the justice for that, you know, that happening. And I think there's a certain... There's a justice to it.
Mike Nottelmann:It it works out. So in my opinion, I I don't know. I just don't... I don't see it.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. Alright. Is is... Tony, to your to your point about, you know, the US Mint and pricing and to tie this all in for everybody, this is... The concept here is that while they price that Liberty Bell at $19,000 because of a coin like this that the US Mint saw the issue price at 2,600 run up to $15.
Ben TheCoinGeek:And I think one of the things that's lost in that concept that the US Mint presumably had or allegedly had is that there are certain products like this one that when the price point is kind of conditioned because you had a coin that sold quickly but also went all through all of the telemarketing channels, to me that I see it this way, and you guys might not, I see a false market. I see something that's like, oh, we were able to control this marketplace, get it out here at a level that's high, and now we can kinda maintain that high market because there's not a lot of them trading on the open market anymore. Anyways, I consider that to be just as controlled of a market as that Liberty Bell was. The only difference was what the US Mint found out, oh, when we can't flip this, when the flippers aren't the ones who are controlling this or the telemarketers aren't the ones who are controlling this, all of a sudden, people just hit resend. I'm sending my package back to the US Mint Yep.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Which is what happened with the Liberty Bell Coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:There's a lot of returns. My understanding is a ton of returns. Dealers are a large portion of the market in terms of on the buy side, creating demand for products and things. So as soon as they realize that they're gonna lose a lot of money on their investment, especially when you have a return window, I mean, it makes sense to me that not going to be super successful. All right.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So speaking of something else that kind of really took off, this is this the V75, seventy five year anniversary of what again? This was D Day
Mike Nottelmann:Victory of World War II.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. All right. So going back, I mean, I guess we'll start again with myself since I, you know, we're doing the reverse order. This coin, never really... Didn't really get it in terms of why this was special, but at the same time, for those that collect proof gold eagles, you're gonna need this particular coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I do think it becomes a little bit of a money grab. As I mentioned before, we got started recording. The first time that I know that the US Mint did this would be with the the grant commemorative gold coin that they also produced with a star. And based on the research I found, the only reason they did that was so that collectors would have to buy both the regular version as well as the version with a star to complete their commemorative set. The myth has this pattern, it seems.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And so when I looked at this, this privy sign and people going crazy for it, I just looked at it as being again, making the product that people have to have so they can complete their set. There's nothing special about the design. I give this a four just because I do like, you know, proof eagles, I guess. But aside from that, there's nothing special about this coin. So Mike.
Mike Nottelmann:They... This coin was the first US coin to have a privy mark. It was not the first coin in the world to have a privy mark. So to the people that had to have one because it's the first privy mark coin, I kinda get it, but everything else about this coin just kinda turns me off. It's just collectible bullion.
Mike Nottelmann:It's proof bullion. It's a beautiful coin. Right? The gold eagles are beautiful, but we've been looking at them now for thirty five years. So it it's not new, it's not innovative.
Mike Nottelmann:There's really nothing in this that makes me say wow.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. David?
David Tine:Yeah. I will say, if I have to get a number score, it's like a three. But I do find it interesting that they only made 1,945 of them. So definitely, no matter how you slice it, a rare coin. At proof 70 in the current market, these are still $20,000 coins, which I think is insane for a proof gold eagle.
David Tine:But I guess there's people putting out, putting together complete sets, and if you don't have this, you don't have a complete set. Makes it kind of interesting. But yeah, at the end of the day, I mean, is a proof gold eagle. There's nothing special about it. Like Mike said, not the first Privy Mark coin in the world.
David Tine:The Royal Canadian Mint's been doing God knows how many privies for how long. So yeah, it's interesting, and I think that it's cool that it's a true modern rarity, but $20 for one of these is insane to me.
Mike Nottelmann:I'd like to add that there was a there was a half ounce gold medal. It was not a coin. It was a medal that was really, really sharp and really nice that it came out in this in this set. Okay. Mister Coins.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. The overall aesthetic... I mean, once again, if we're just going aesthetic, proof gold eagles are attractive coins somewhere in that four or five range just as a pretty coin. You know, the value proposition like you guys were talking about, there's a lot to be said for that. You know, there is the fact that there's less than 2,000 produced.
Ben TheCoinGeek:So relatively speaking, it's one of the more rare, you know, US coins that have been produced. It's it's hard, though, when you're living through something. Like, it's easy. Like, Tony, to your comment, like, it's really easy for me to romanticize a Grant with Star when really it's the same as this or, you know, a Missouri two by four, you know, some variant. And then...
Ben TheCoinGeek:But on the modern stuff, this doesn't do anything for me personally. You know, on the rarity scale, it's obviously a very rare piece. And I'm trying to figure out... I... You know, there were other Privy Mark coins before this.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I'm trying to figure out what it was. There's a Commem? Fun fact, the the the innovation dollars have privies on them starting in 2019. Yes. And Yeah.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I think there might be a platinum coin like a decade earlier, but I'm still not sure on that. I won't worry about that later. But, yeah, maybe a four.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Yeah. I think the cons of the privies do make... They do play a role in coin collecting because... And I'm just gonna throw this one out there.
Tony Gryckiewicz:We don't have to pause and talk about this particular coin, but they recently released, you know, these Trump dollars. And then there was a couple that had the July 4 privy on them, and that all of a sudden sparked this whole interest in finding these coins, getting rolls of them, tearing apart the rolls, trying to find the July 4 privies because they were rare, and there was a a rarity that got people excited and they went searching through their coins and stuff. And I don't know. I mean, true collectors, they love that stuff. This is a PG podcast.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So they love that stuff, and they love searching for things. They love digging through piles of coins and finding the privy. So I do think there is a role for privies in in coin collecting. I I think it's also one those things you can't do too frequently or wears off the deal or the of it kind of wears off a little bit. But yeah, I don't want to hate on this coin too much.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Overall, you're right, David. It is a true modern rarity. They decided to make this really special edition eagle and because of that people needing it for the set, I mean the price went off and you know, it is what it is. It's a cool rare coin and if one comes up to my table at a show, I'm buying it for sure. So yeah, I guess there's that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So speaking of a coin that I don't know if I'd buy. Alright, so we got the twenty eighteen Breast Cancer Awareness coin. This was a rose gold coin, which is interesting. They made a rose gold coin. It's actually kinda cool, but anyway, I guess we're starting with me in terms of ratings and things.
Tony Gryckiewicz:You know, I'm very fortunate, no one in my family has ever had breast cancer. This is a tough one, though. What do you say politically, you know, what do you say?
Ben TheCoinGeek:Hey, I'm gonna put Tony up there. Tony, go ahead and get on
Mike Nottelmann:the Yeah. Let him go first.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Breast cancer, you know, coin, buddy.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Well, I just never liked how her arm is going up like this. I don't know what that means. I don't know. The design has been interesting. I don't know.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I didn't feel like I I I can't win here with whatever score I give this thing. I'll give it a solid 7.5. Okay? There you go. Because I think it's a very cool mixture of making rose gold.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Rose gold's really pretty. This butterfly in reverse is actually cool. I don't know if we've had a butterfly in a river on a coin before. That's actually kind of cool. So yeah, I mean, all in all, pretty cool all around coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So anyway, I'll let's move on from get
Mike Nottelmann:you off the hook. So I give it a five for a coin, right? A 100 for a cause, but a five for a coin. I've always been big on cancer charities and stuff like that.
David Tine:I'm not
Mike Nottelmann:sure if these are butterflies or moths because But they look more like the butterfly is one of the symbols for the breast cancer awareness, what do I want to say, movement, because it shows it shows change in people and coming through something. So it's like the fact that they're on there and they're prominently featured is really cool. The rose gold was their attempt to try and make the coin more pink, which is the breast cancer color. So you kinda tip your cap to them on that. They tried something different.
Mike Nottelmann:I don't know if it really worked or not, but I mean, for for this coin, I think it was fine. And I mean, the design is just kinda one of those, it's it's rather lackluster, but the elements that they used are well executed and it's it's a good, you know, it's a nice coin. I would give it a solid five.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. David?
David Tine:Yeah. I give it four, I guess. I do like the butterfly. I'll kinda... That'll be my ending remarks in terms of design.
David Tine:I will say that, so I believe these are 85% pure gold, and that makes their actual gold weight different than every other $5 commemorative out there, which I actually... I I did a wholesale deal about a year ago with a bunch of $5 gold, and the guy who I sold it to, pretty well respected dealer, was like, hey, I think you miscalculated. You shorted yourself a little I'm like, no, I didn't. And he was factoring this at the point two four one nine, like a normal $5 commend. And these are not that.
David Tine:So, it makes it a little bit tricky for us dealers when we're trying to figure out what melt value is like, oh, we gotta look this one up specifically because I know I don't have these remembered, and I bet most of us don't either.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Interesting.
David Tine:But yeah, they contain less gold than a normal $5 commem, which makes my life a little more difficult whenever... I mean, these don't pop up often, but when they do, I gotta Google what the AGW is on these. Yeah. So
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. I... I'm I'm not sure either. I I think they're about point two two instead of point two four. Yeah.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Which is a kind of a shame just if you think about what the entire issue is. You know, you wanna support something. I think design wise, once again, I'm with you guys. I'd give it a, like, a five. Butterfly is nice.
Ben TheCoinGeek:The rose gold thing, it doesn't quite come through. It is really interesting to see in person. Once again, when you look at the different things the US Mint has tried to do, I'm pretty sure this is the only kind of color shift... Intentional color shift that isn't actually a colored coin as far as... You know, there's a couple they've done where they've actually put coloration on the coin.
Ben TheCoinGeek:And it's pretty interesting to see him in person, and, you know, it is rose gold. It isn't exactly pink. But overall, it's a it's a great cause, of course. And then overall, the design is... They've definitely seen worse, but I think they could have done something a little bit better.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I think this entire 2019, some of the modern era, they started going to more, and I don't wanna say laser engraving because I don't know the technical term, but there was too much detail on the people. You can make a softer element. This is, I think, about the same vintage as the Mark Twain coin, where I was like, man, you don't need to, like, give four k depth on the poor man's wrinkles. Like, that's not necessary. You know?
Ben TheCoinGeek:I think you could soften this coin up a little bit and change up a couple design elements, but... Yeah. Sure.
David Tine:A little too much detail on the crow's feet there. So Yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. She looks really wrinkly. I'm not gonna not gonna lie. That's just... This is what it is.
Tony Gryckiewicz:We'll move on. We'll move on. Alright, guys. We'll do this one kinda quick. We'll be just for the second time.
Tony Gryckiewicz:We're gonna keep moving here, but this is the twenty nineteen s enhanced reverse proof. It is a cool coin, in my opinion. I love these coins. I buy them all the time. I I I deal in, you know, rare numismatics.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This is a coin that that in hand is a really kind of outstanding, kind of hits you in the face, kind of cool looking coin. In my opinion, this is at least 8.8 is where I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna move off the the point five, you know, decimals here scale. 8.8 is where I put this coin for me personally. I do think it's just an excellent design.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I love the Silver Eagles in general. This is kind of the, I guess, the old style eagle on the reverse of it. But this... The enhanced reverse proof aspect, kind of frosty fields and the reflective gown here to flag alternating with the really reflective sun. It's cool.
Tony Gryckiewicz:It's cool. So 8.8. Mike.
Mike Nottelmann:10. Nice. This is my favorite coin that the US Mint has ever made, and I've made no secret of that. I really love these coins. I think that the version that they did for enhanced uncirculated might be a little bit better, but I like this.
Mike Nottelmann:You see the flag. For the first time, some people are seeing the flag that that's what she's wearing. And it just is so brutally obvious on this coin. 10. Nice.
Mike Nottelmann:Okay. David?
David Tine:Yeah. 9, I guess. I mean, I guess one point down just because it's a silver eagle, but it is the coolest of the silver eagles. I don't really have much to add from what you guys said. I mean, it looks amazing.
David Tine:Best looking of all the Silver Eagles in my opinion. Better than any of like the just normal reverse proofs that they've done. And, you know, this was at a time when special Silver Eagles, in my opinion, still had some specialness to them. Now, it's like every six months, there's a new privy coming out or something. It's...
David Tine:Maybe that's a topic for another time of them overdoing this... The gimmicks, but this one, fantastic.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Ben?
Ben TheCoinGeek:Like a seven and a half. I mean, probably just discounting because it's a silver eagle. But as far as silver eagles go, based on everyone else's comments, I was thinking about that. I'm like, I I don't know that there's a better looking silver eagle, and I do think that generally they're attractive coins, well executed designs. Is this the one where they had the certificates and the mint director autographed, like, 200 of them or something?
Mike Nottelmann:No. That was the that was the gold piece. This one was San Francisco only. The w came in the pride of two nations set. Alright.
Mike Nottelmann:And this one was sold by itself.
Ben TheCoinGeek:So I'm not I'm not gonna contradict Mike, but I am because I'm pretty sure it was because this was this was the coin that I called the Acerp. I had to I had to remember the... I had to acronym it, the American Silver Eagle, the American Silver Enhanced Reverse Proof. I think... Yeah.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Anyways Go. They were getting the certificates certified with these
Mike Nottelmann:Oh, okay.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. As well when they
Ben TheCoinGeek:came out. It was another big chase Mhmm. Because you could get something that had serial number one or something like that on the cert. But what's interesting is going back to that 2017 set that we didn't like, the technology used there, now used here, is something that you went from a set you just yawned about and forgot about to all y'all's one of your favorite coins of a modern US Mint coin. So once again, it's interesting just from an artistic perspective how application from, like, one thing to another is like, oh, didn't hit, and then all of like, this is really nice.
Ben TheCoinGeek:So anyways, cool. Good discussion.
Mike Nottelmann:Nice. It's kinda like looking at a Honda and then looking at a Ferrari.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Oh, speaking of Hondas.
David Tine:Yeah. I guess. Flapped out Nissan right here.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. So we're gonna move on to something that is interesting and special DC comic. This is an interesting direction for the US Mint. This is kind of blending a couple of different hobbies together. You have, of course, people that are interested in movies and then comic books specifically.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I don't wanna say something for kids. I guess it's for all ages by all means, but it is a superhero and then coin collecting and making something like this in gold. So what do you guys think? I mean, I guess, let's let's go back to the original order, starting with mister The Coin Geek. What was your opinion here of this half ounce, you know, Superman coin?
Ben TheCoinGeek:I mean, design wise, it's a... Yeah. I don't know. I I just think it it misses. Once again, you talk about the difference between enhancing this one set and
David Tine:then the silver eagle, and it's just this night and day effect.
Ben TheCoinGeek:When I've seen these in hand on the... I think it was the proof that he looks pretty good, but the unk, it's just kinda flat. The design elements are just so so for me. But the reverse of the coin is just not good. I mean, it's
Tony Gryckiewicz:just I agree.
Ben TheCoinGeek:There's too many things moving around out there. It's just very busy. You know, and when... So there's this thing that happens when I have to explain a joke, I've been told it's not funny. If you have to explain to me what the design means, it's not a good design.
Ben TheCoinGeek:And so, I... Overall design on this for me is like a three and a half. It just doesn't do it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. David.
David Tine:Yeah. This does nothing for me and I feel the US Mint with this Marvel or well DC. Friends DC or DC.
Tony Gryckiewicz:He did it first. Alright.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Well, I'm
David Tine:trying to see how much I know in Canada.
Mike Nottelmann:Those guys get upset too.
David Tine:I'm sure. But, maybe this will upset him more. I think The US men doing superhero stuff just strays The US men closer to like real Canadian men territory or you know, some of these other private men's. And it does nothing for me. I will say his abs look fantastic.
David Tine:But other than that... And to nitpick a little design thing here, why are the designers initials so much bigger than the mitt mark?
Ben TheCoinGeek:Thank you.
David Tine:That that that's annoying.
Mike Nottelmann:Stroke amigo.
David Tine:This this is nothing for me, and I wish the US Mint would stop doing this.
Ben TheCoinGeek:So So David, that's a great point that I... You just verbalized something that I hadn't thought about directly, but I've caught it on Modern Coins, And that is the initials for the designers
Tony Gryckiewicz:They're huge.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Make up way too much space Yeah. Mhmm. On coins now, and I hadn't really thought
Mike Nottelmann:about prominent.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Except I keep seeing these CAC coins. I'm like, man, how did John Albany's pull that off? Yeah. Interesting. And I understand having designers initials are nothing new, but here, this poor guy or gal, JBN, like, BN, it's like hidden, and then the other side is like, boom.
David Tine:You know, think about like a a Morgan dollar or a barber. It's in the neck and it's angled and you can barely see
Ben TheCoinGeek:it. Yeah.
David Tine:Know? It's subtle. This is just like, in God we trust, JFM.
Mike Nottelmann:And also JFM.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. Mister Norman.
Mike Nottelmann:I keep looking for my dad every time you call me that. So this is one of those you had me and then you lost me. So it's like I can kinda give you the Superman side. If you're gonna do the farm on one side and to... And that's gonna be devoid of context, which I think this is.
Mike Nottelmann:Right? There's a plane, which I don't know what a plane has to do with Superman, except he's faster than one. I don't see a bullet or a locomotive. And on the the obverse, then you should probably have something more metropolitan. Right?
Mike Nottelmann:Because he went to the city to do what he does. So it's kind of ill conceived. Yeah. And I'm with all of you guys on the fact that the reverse just doesn't make any sense to me. And yes, David, you absolutely put...
Mike Nottelmann:And now I can't unsee it. Right? That the initials are just gargantuan on this coin. Huge. It's almost as big as the legend, and that really is kind of egregious.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Okay. So you guys brought some really good points. I love the fact, David, what you said about, you know, getting close to the Canadian... Really Canadian Mint, and there's all these other mints around over overseas that try to do very interesting, you know, strange stuff with with coins and they dabble into different areas that might have some collector interest.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I think this is maybe what perhaps the US Mint was doing with this one. I don't know why Superman is so associated with liberty. I mean, as a concept, I I guess there's nothing more free than being able to fly around on a whim, I guess. That just doesn't really make a lot of sense. The whole reverse thing, I do think you got this bird here.
Tony Gryckiewicz:You got like, is it a bird? Is it a plane? No. It's Superman. You know, that that it's...
Tony Gryckiewicz:Motto. Yeah. And then you got, I guess, Uncle Ben or is that... I'm mixing series here, mixing superheroes. He's so many great comments.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Working on his truck. I agree. This is a very I'll
Mike Nottelmann:struggle again. See what happens.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Actually, think that one is Marvel.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Call me Marvel one more time. There you go.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That's funny. Alright. So anyways, I have to give this one a four. I... Because I I do kind of like Superman and I do kind of like, you know, comic book stuff a little bit, but this is a really weird design and and weird.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I have not had a single person come up to my table to ask for a Superman or Batman coin, so at least...
Mike Nottelmann:And I didn't give it a numerical grade, so I'll give it a two.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Well, not good on that one. Alright. So moving... Switching gears a little bit.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So this is now a very recent issue. It's got the CAC tag right here. Yep. Not the one that we all know, but a different one, I believe. This is an actually circulating business strike coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:This is a redesign of the 1 dime, I think. Correct correct me if I'm wrong. I wanna jump over to David. I'm just gonna kinda switch gears here and jump over to David. What do you think, man?
David Tine:I like the dime. I actually like most of the 2026 circulating coinage that they did. Again, we have terrible mid mark placement on the obverse and egregiously large designer initials. I guess that's just how the mid does things these days. I mean, you can put the midmark like below the neck or something.
David Tine:Like, it's just gotta be in front of her face.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Right. She's about to eat the pee right there. Yeah.
Ben TheCoinGeek:But Go ahead.
David Tine:I mean, I like the fact that we're getting Lady Liberty back on coins. So I like this, and I think the eagle looks pretty cool. So I I really like the eagle on that. I know there's been some discussion. I haven't looked too much into it about the eagle not holding olive branches, just holding arrows.
David Tine:So maybe someone else can further elaborate on that. But overall, I like the coin. I I give it like a eight, you know, nitpicky some design aspects, but I like it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So Nice. Okay. Mister Norman.
Mike Nottelmann:So absolute winner. I have not heard anybody that has had a bad thing to say about this design either side to expound on what David was talking about. So if you look at the eagle, the eagle's right claw is... Or the eagle's left claw is empty. I guess it is his right claw.
Mike Nottelmann:It's empty. And in the left, the arrows of war. So the heraldry says that in the right claw, the dexter is what you prefer. In the left claw is the sinister. That's what you will go to.
Mike Nottelmann:All of our coins have an eagle with olive branches in the right and arrows of war in the left. The idea is, you know, that we want peace, but we'll go to war. This is celebrating the revolution anniversary, and so we did not want peace. We had no choice but to go to war, and that's why the olive branches are missing. Now that said, if you like this design, and like I said, I don't know anybody that hasn't, I can tell you that in my talk with the MITT director, which you can find on our website, he gives us hope that this design could go forward into the future.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So it's not just a one year type is what you're saying?
Mike Nottelmann:Not just a one year.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Okay. That's good news. Ben?
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. I think I'm with these guys. Gotta go with something like an eight or eight plus. I'm in favor of new designs that don't have presidents on them, so I'm happy to see... I didn't say I'm happy to see FDR go, but, like, in general, I prefer the classical coins where it was liberty in some representation.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I really like the return of the Phrygia cap here. It's a little bit of a modern twist in the fact that it looks... It's definitely a Phrygia cap based on its overall shape, but it has the stars on it, and it's made to look like it was in flag. But it also has a very, like, dust bowl nineteen thirties look overall the hat does. So it's like this weird modification, but I like that a lot.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. I mean, in the eagle the eagle with the arrows and no olive branch, when, Mike, when you explain it the way you did, I'm like, okay. I could get that. But, also, the liberty over tyranny part, I don't know. There's just some things going on there for me that the combination of those two things together, I don't know that they square up quite right to me, but this is all just artistic in person, you know, interpretation at this point.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I think overall, it's a really great design. I wouldn't mind having them, you know, going forward. I would like to have the olive branches back, I guess, if we're gonna do symbology here and and just put liberty... Get rid of the liberty over tyranny on the back and just leave it the 1 dime. You know, center that up a little bit better and, you know, don't make it identical.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Obviously, you're not gonna have the bicentennial on there anymore, so there could be a couple modifications on it to really make it a nice looking coin moving forward. But overall, it's it's a great looking coin.
Mike Nottelmann:And this one has two sets of designer initials on the offer.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yes. So you have the committee. Right? CAC is the committee or something?
Mike Nottelmann:No. That's that's a designer's initial, I wanna say. Oh.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Okay. My thoughts on this one, I I give it an 8.5. I think I would be at nine if it wasn't for this mint mark. I think this is really poorly placed.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I think that they had to make room for this designer's initials and this designer's initials, and so the third place was to put the mint mark over there. I think that was a really poor design choice. That being said, I think that Liberty has never looked this nice on a coin in a long time that I can think of even in some of the high relief Liberty's gold coin series that we've seen. I just think that the execution of the image is really top notch. I love the look of this coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I love the fact that this is a circulating coin that I'm gonna find this in my pocket change. Hypothetically, that's actually really cool to me. The the fact that you have the empty claw and the arrows, it makes you pause and think about what exactly we are saying here, what this is meant to reflect. Maybe it is the revolution, maybe this All Liberty Over Tyranny is about the revolution, but you know, we're still fighting wars today supposedly in the name of Liberty Over Tyranny as well, overseas and whatnot. So I don't know if there's anything to do with that, but I like this direction.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I love this direction a whole lot more than Superman, Uncle Ben working on his on his truck, you know? That's what I'll I'll say about that one. Alright. So this one, I'm I'm gonna kick this one off because I don't like this coin. I'll just say I'm gonna get this out of the way.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I don't like this coin. I know some people like this coin, think, on this on this group. And I wanna give you guys a chance to tell me why I'm wrong. But I feel like this design, this came out in 2001, this is a silver. They also then did some gold coins as well.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I just felt like this is sort of like a copy of a past design of the lip... Of the Buffalo nickel, and it's just sort of from a from a design perspective, a mint perspective is just phoning it in. It's just regurgitating a past design. But there's been a lot of success with redoing past designs. So me personally, I look at a coin like this and maybe it's the image.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I give it a three out of 10 for me personally, but I do like gold buffalos too. There is something about the the 4 nines fine of the gold buffalo. I'm gonna be giving this one a three out of 10. Who wants to go next? I'm gonna...
Mike Nottelmann:I'll go. Okay. I wanted to add real quick about the last coin. The one nice thing about putting Liberty back on coins is the fact that we don't feel bad taking her off or redesigning it. You know, there's how dare you pull Lincoln off the side?
Mike Nottelmann:How dare you do this? This, when it's time to redesign, you redesign, you bring out something nice and nobody says anything. So I really like that about it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay.
Mike Nottelmann:As far as this goes, you're exactly right on that, Tony. It is a regurgitation for that. I will give it a five because here's the thing. So you love the seventy fifth anniversary Gold Eagle. 1,975 of them...
Mike Nottelmann:Or 1,945 of them made. Right? And you were saying that you really like that coin. That coin sells. This coin sells.
Mike Nottelmann:I can't keep these in stock. This is one of the few commemoratives that actually sells for above issue. Issue. And that's a rare thing for me, at least. So is it uninspired?
Mike Nottelmann:Maybe. Is it overused? Absolutely. But it still sells. I give it a five.
Tony Gryckiewicz:There's an appeal from per... From collectors. David, are you... Do you experience the same thing at your coin shop? Do people come in and buy these and excited about these?
David Tine:Yeah. I I mean, so I'll I'll say the Buffalo nickel is one of my favorite just US series to both buy and sell as a dealer, and I have a few in my personal stash because I just... I like the coins. I think it's an interesting series. But...
David Tine:Yeah. And and Mike's right. These do sell for over list. I mean, they're one of the few silver dollar commems that are worth more than melt, so that's cool. Do any of you know why this coin even came to be?
David Tine:Because 2001 is not... 2013 would be a hundred years since the first Buffalo Nickel. So 2001 seems random.
Ben TheCoinGeek:So it's actually the Smithsonian. Right?
Mike Nottelmann:Yeah. I think this was the Smithsonian.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Remember. Totally unrelated because it doesn't say anywhere on the coin. Yeah. No. Okay.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. And then, yeah, it doesn't say it anywhere on the coin. It's one of those ones where the box says it, and then you're like, oh, this has the buffalo in it. So there's some stuff that's going on there that I think it was our first, like, retread, so to speak. But to everyone else's point, it is one of the few...
Ben TheCoinGeek:Even though they made, like, a quarter of a million unks and a quarter of a million proofs, one of the few modern US commems that sold over issue price. And a quarter of a century later, it's still selling over issue price when everything else, it's like, well, you know, here's 87% of milk for you guys. Like, you know, like Yep.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Done.
Ben TheCoinGeek:So... But I I like the design. I actually think they look much better in hand, and I also think that the proof, of course, is a stark difference. There's something to be said for the fact that the US Mint takes the same dyes and uses them for proofs and unks. And I think that if they were gonna tinker with something going forward, they may wanna consider actually having completely...
Ben TheCoinGeek:Not completely different, but somewhat different designs between the proof and the uncirculated coin because some of the coins don't translate into uncirculated like they do in proof. And this one looks... I think in hand looks good in both, actually, and I'd give this, like, a solid eight. I think it's a good looking coin.
David Tine:I'll add real quick that I think the gold buffalo bullion is a much better retread of the buffalo nickel than this one. Gold buffalo reminds me of like, you ever see a completely just hammer strike 1913 type one where it just hammered and you see everything? This looks flat and kinda uninspired. I think the gold buffalo is a much nicer retread of it.
Mike Nottelmann:So Yep. The fields on that gold buffalo are textured where these are really flat.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of being smooth. Yeah.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Correct.
David Tine:Yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. Well, we are coming running out of time. I got two final ones here. So I had to throw this in here. We got these $20.26 quarters.
Tony Gryckiewicz:In this case, this is the Pilgrim ones. What do you guys think about this design? Who do I wanna hand it to? Ben. Ben, go ahead and tell us
Ben TheCoinGeek:what's your thoughts on these quarters. Boy, I'd have to see... I don't know how many of the quarters for this year you're gonna show, but, like, if we had all
Mike Nottelmann:of them,
Ben TheCoinGeek:it would be a little easier. But the Mayflower compact, this is straight off of the pilgrim, this design. And so the commemorative half, nineteen twenty twenty one. And once again, retread retread, which it's this double edged sword because clearly, the US Mint is really pushing retreads of things that are popular because they're popular. It's like, hey.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Why don't why don't you have hell freeze over tour and... When you need more money? Right? I'm not a fan of the obverse of this coin. I give this coin maybe like a five overall.
Ben TheCoinGeek:This looks kinda flat in general, and then, you know, the boat's nice, but it's also been done before. And maybe if they would have come with a different angle or something, it might have come out a little different.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Mhmm. Okay. David? Yeah.
David Tine:It's fine. I don't know. Four or five, like, I'm kinda sick of the quarter series. I kinda wish we were just like, hey, make a quarter and keep it for a while and update everything else. This is fine.
David Tine:The front does nothing for me. Kinda going back to like we talked about before, these realistic human beings have a little too much detail. I mean, I guess this isn't as bad as like the neck wrinkles on the breast cancer one we looked at earlier. But yeah, this one doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. Mike Naudleman.
Mike Nottelmann:This one's kind of meh. It's like the the pilgrims are okay. They did kind of ease back on the the relief on their faces. So yeah, they don't look overly realistic. What really gets me with this quarter though is the rough sea.
Mike Nottelmann:I mean, that's awful rough sea for a boat that big and for it to just kind of be calmly. It should be like
Ben TheCoinGeek:Hang the
Mike Nottelmann:load. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking deadliest catch kinda, you know, coming off of it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Alright. So I... I'm just not a fan of any of this. Go ahead.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Sorry. Were you finished?
Ben TheCoinGeek:Four.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Four. Yeah. Agree with you, Mike. I think this is a four for me as well.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Maybe even a three and a half. I'm I'm kinda just over these these quarters. I think they just really jumped the shark on all this quarter stuff with the... I mean, whatever whatever we had. We have the statehood quarters, and then we had some other quarters, presidential quarters National parks.
Tony Gryckiewicz:National... Sorry. National park quarters.
Mike Nottelmann:We had women for four years. And
Tony Gryckiewicz:now we got the pilgrims. I mean, yeah, the believability of of all of this. I mean, he looks pretty darn healthy for for a long voyage over overseas all that time and little what they were they were living off in terms of scraps they were finding.
David Tine:No scurvy up there. Yeah.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Exactly. If he had scurvy.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Fresh pressed collared, you know, outfit.
Mike Nottelmann:Oh, it's his good Sunday frock.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That's true. Exactly. And he's he's not...
David Tine:Oh, he's been lined up too, barber.
Tony Gryckiewicz:All lined up on the beard. Yeah. There's no way that's real. So I'm gonna I'm gonna pass on that one.
Mike Nottelmann:I'm gonna
Tony Gryckiewicz:three and a half. Alright. Had to throw this one up there because we did touch on the other and we got two final coins. This this one and one last one will kinda wrap it up. But alright guys, so what did you guys think of this one?
Tony Gryckiewicz:This was the second curved coin. I just feel like we need to give this coin its due because I really love this coin. This is... I gave this as a gift to a really good buddy of mine back when it came out. I love it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I love the whole design of it. And again, they did an excellent job with the the face shield of the astronaut, the reflection. Who wants to take a stab at this one first? What are your what are your grades?
Mike Nottelmann:I'll take it first. So this is an innovation again. This is the first commemorative that was made in four nines or three nines silver. There is not 90% in this one. This is 2019.
Mike Nottelmann:This is is pure silver. As far as the visor, it really works with the convex side of the coin. I I kind of looked at it like the baseball coin and went, well, it's cool, but do I want another one? Do I think that this is the coin for that? I'd give it like a 7.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Can do Alright. I like it. David?
David Tine:Yeah. I mean, I do prefer the baseball one over this. I I guess, what we're looking at right now is that it's supposed to be the view through the visor. I was getting
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. This is like the reflection of the visor of the astronaut who's I taking a picture of that
David Tine:was getting kind of just fish eye lens vibes off it.
Mike Nottelmann:It's it's taken from a famous photograph that was taken by Neil Armstrong of Buzz Aldrin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Gotcha. Okay.
David Tine:Yeah. I mean, I do prefer the baseball one. It is neat. I kinda like the other side of the coin more with the footprint kinda being in the depression. I think that's kinda cool.
David Tine:Yeah. I'll give it a six. It's interesting, but I think the baseball one was better execution of this concave, convex idea. Oh, side note, JFM again, same initials from the Superman. This is much more appropriately sized than on that Superman coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I totally agree. Totally agree. Ben, the coin Just
Ben TheCoinGeek:a comment section. I just wanna make sure I mentioned that this is the the best the sound stage has ever looked.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Do it.
Ben TheCoinGeek:You're welcome. Let's go. Okay. The coin...
Mike Nottelmann:Thank you.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I do like this is the convex, concave concept again. I do prefer the baseball, and I will say that some of the detail on this coin that's interesting to me though is the the moon phases on this side being used. I think that's a nice little clever use of space.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I notice that.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. And then I do like what they did with with the proportions again on the the face mask side here. And what's interesting is after looking at the baseball coin, this coin, it just reinforces how the bell came out wrong. Like, the... A bell has a curve to it, and this coin doesn't actually have to be curved to get that look to it.
Ben TheCoinGeek:It's called perspective. You can make something look curved. The only other comment on this is they made a five ounce piece out of this too, five ounce silver piece, which is actually pretty cool. And I think it's the only domed five ounce piece that they made. But, yeah, I I think it's a pretty cool design.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I would rate it below the baseball and above some other things, so probably about a seven. But it's it's a... It is a pretty neat coin in hand, but especially the five ouncer because it's just, like, big and chunky.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. I guess I would rate this as a 7.5. I I did really like this coin when it came out. The the five ounce variety makes it really pretty interesting. I didn't realize that about the moon phases.
Tony Gryckiewicz:That's kinda cool. Again, I think that with the curved surface, they had a great idea with the reflection of the visor of the astronaut. And the other side, you know, they just really thought about, okay, what do we do with moons and moonwalks and so forth, and they... What made more sense on the concave side was the baseball glove. The baseball glove was...
Tony Gryckiewicz:Is a concave service. They put that in there. This is... This could have been done on a flat coin, but they did it with a curved coin.
Mike Nottelmann:Let me throw this at you. He stepped on it and now it's basin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I'll give you that for sure. I see that.
Mike Nottelmann:I'm I'm reaching.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Alright. So the final thing I wanted to get folks, I needed to throw this out there because I am so... I've got so many mixed feelings about this coin. I'll go first, so I'll give someone else the last word. I love this design.
Tony Gryckiewicz:I think a lot of people love this design. People were lined up at the ANA to get this coin. People came out to the ANA show in Pittsburgh just to get this coin. I picked up two of them myself, got one set graded, it's gonna be on my website. The other set I have raw because soon thereafter, the value, the price on the US Mint website went down by like $300 and I just felt very much left out in the cold by the Mint on this particular coin.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Love the design. I feel I would grade this design. It's a regurgitation of course of the $18.00 $4 and that's the whole point. Best of the Mint, that's the series, the best of the Mint product. So they purposely are redoing it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Plus, you have the privy right there. I would give this design in a 9.5. I love the coin. I absolutely love the coin. The execution or what the mint's doing now and the packaging was kind of good too.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Packaging was not bad on these, but what Mint's doing with the price coming down as much as it has. First off, the price started off too high to begin with. So execution business side of it, I give it to like a six. I just don't know what they're really doing. And I feel like people that are are participating are getting hurt, which is the opposite of really what you want as a business.
Tony Gryckiewicz:You want your patrons to be rewarded by patronizing your, you know, your business and... Or I guess it's not business. It's the US Mint, but it technically is. I mean, they are trying to make a profit on this. So anyway, that that...
Tony Gryckiewicz:Those are my thoughts. David, what are your thoughts on this one, man?
David Tine:Yeah. I don't like the privy. I guess everything needs a privy these days. I think keep the design more pure, don't need the privy. And I I'm quite frankly just a little confused about what the whole best of the mid series is.
David Tine:I mean, other than a money making endeavor, but why and what qualified this to be like the best of the mid series? The whole thing kind of puzzles me a little bit. Yeah. Great high relief drape bust. It's an awesome design, but I don't really understand the series and I could do without a privy.
David Tine:So
Tony Gryckiewicz:Okay. Alright. Mister Nalman, what do you think? Sorry.
Mike Nottelmann:Mike gonna attack completely the other way. I'm gonna tell you I hate it. I hate it for many reasons. One, let's start with the date. Wrong four.
Mike Nottelmann:Should have a cross lit four. Doesn't have a cross lit four. Two, this is a remake of the eighteen o four dollar. Why are you doing that in gold? Convoluted doesn't make sense.
Mike Nottelmann:If you're gonna do an $180.04 gold, do, you know, a turban head. Put the design on it from then and make it relevant to the coin and relevant to the metal that it's made out of. So design is beautiful, but it was a cash grab. And I just think it's it's poorly thought out. So I'm gonna give it a four.
Mike Nottelmann:Okay.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. I'm I'm a little bit with with Mike on this. Well, to defend the mint using gold, I mean, Mercury Dime, Walking Liberty Half, Standard Liberty Quarter, some of the most popular things that they've made in the last decade, you know, some of the few mint products that still have a premium. I have a couple of issues with this. One, I disdain or dislike computer generated images of something that I wanna see in person.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Like, I think that the... Any any image like this on eBay should be banned and should never be used. I think they should have the technology to do that. The US Mint using fake images or computer images on their website should be banned. I mean Mhmm.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Show me the coin. Show me what it looks like. This to me is ugly. This is... I have the same problem with, like, whatever people use with their four k or eight k technology.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I don't need to see beyond what my eyeball can see. It confuses my eye and hurts my head. I don't wanna be able to see the dude in the seventeenth row picking picking his nose while I'm trying to watch a baseball go across a plate. Unnecessary. The high definition on this stuff, completely out of line.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Don't make it look like something that it's not. Like, there's just too much engraving on this coin. I mean, entirely too much engraving on this coin. In person, they look much better than this image, but even then, it's still kinda same issue for me where, you know, a coin from eighteen o four is funkadelic, has all kinds of strike problems. I would much rather they find a way to make their mint presses not press evenly, and each planchet, when it goes through, comes out with a different weak spot on it.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Give me that. There's technology for you, you know, because then each coin would look different. And I find that actually a lot more appealing than this. And and that's one of the weird things about the modern coin market that I don't like. All the coins look identical.
Ben TheCoinGeek:It's like, if you wanna argue over 69 or 70, like, that's not the point of coin grading. It's not the point of making coins. Right? So this is maybe a two and a half to three for me. There's a lot about it I don't like and it's all just here for me.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I don't I don't get it.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Got it. Alright, guys. Well, I guess final question for... We'll go around the the room one time. Final question for people out there specifically, and that is give some advice.
Tony Gryckiewicz:What will be the 1 coin, one US Mint product produced in the last twenty years? Let's say, so a modern US Mint product that you would recommend for collectors out there of any budget. So just throw out the budget question. Just what would be the one coin that you would recommend they go find and put in their collection because you think it's a real winner long term? And I will start with...
Tony Gryckiewicz:I bet Mike Mike looks like he's sure that he knows what he what he's gonna say. The other guys are thinking here. So go ahead, Mike.
Mike Nottelmann:I'm I'm pretty solid on this one. So if I was to only have a choice of one coin, it would be a 2,008 quarter ounce buffalo in either proof or uncirculated. This coin was the one that kind of gave them the inspiration to do the best of the mint series, the whole $20.16 dime quarter and half. So there's a little bit to it. The mint director can make certain things in gold, but they have to use 24 carat blanks.
Mike Nottelmann:If they use 24 carat blanks, they can pretty much make a lot of the things that they want to and they don't need legislation. So that's how a lot of this stuff gets made. But the 2,008 Buffalo is a quarter ounce pure gold, and it is exactly the same size as a buffalo nickel. So it is like having a solid gold buffalo nickel in your hand, and that is what missed on the Mercury dime, the standing liberty quarter, and the walking liberty half. Alright.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Very good. Who wants to go next?
Ben TheCoinGeek:David, you got something?
David Tine:Alright. This is kind of a... I don't know if you call it error or variety out of left field here. So 2,007 Proof Platinum, the Frosted Freedom. So kind of a mistake from the mint.
David Tine:I guess it'd be a mistake. I don't know if they're experimenting or they just forgot to... There's a banner on the reverse that says freedom on it. And they forgot to make the text mirrored finish. So it it's frosted and it blends in with the rest of the the banner.
Tony Gryckiewicz:And Okay.
David Tine:I just looked one up. Sold a few years ago, a 71 ouncer sold on great collections for $232,000. So, if you can find one of those, maybe get lucky and cherry pick one. 2,007 proof platinum eagle, frosted freedom. Yeah.
David Tine:Put that one away. So...
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. Alright. We'll get one of
Tony Gryckiewicz:those flashed up on the screen for people that I I think it's also maybe called, like, the discovery specimen. I found something. I think it's it. I'll get it flashed up on the screen. But anyways, Ben, Coin Geek, what would you say would be your recommendation for people out there if they could find one mint product?
Ben TheCoinGeek:Yeah. Of course. Oh, there you go. Yeah. So this one's tough for me because the last quarter century of coin making, there's a ton of stuff that they've made.
Ben TheCoinGeek:And I guess from your your question has to do with upward mobility in the marketplace, which is kinda how I read your question. That's how I think about those. Yeah. I like both of their answers because I I would think that generally speaking, if you can find something that's really underappreciated, that's gonna answer your question for you. If something's already very popular, it's already gonna be somewhat possibly maxed out in the marketplace.
Ben TheCoinGeek:I was thinking along the lines of some of the either platinum, palladium, or even the, like, half ounce, what do they call it, first spouse series. There's some coins out there with productions under 3,000, some under 2,000 that nobody cares about. And maybe that's a bad sign, but I just think if you're actually, like, putting together what you would call a diversified portfolio, I would try to chase down some of those in MS 70, especially MS because the min stake coins on modern coins always have lower production rates, and they're harder to get a 70 than the proofs are. And so if if you're playing that type of a numbers game, I would just... You you can do your own research on this, but to Mike's point about the fractional buffalos, that's a one year thing.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Some of the platinum issues, early platinum issues are really hard in MS 70, and then everyone forgets about those palladium and those half ounce, you know, first spouse series with productions of, like, really low production rates. And those are things that you can cherry pick at today's market where if someone went and bought, like, I don't know, Jackie O's for the wrong one because they probably made a lot of Jackies.
Mike Nottelmann:The Jefferson one.
Ben TheCoinGeek:The Jefferson. Okay. So some of those have production rates that are really low. And if you went to a coin show and you saw one, and there's a pretty good chance the dealer's gonna be like, at melt. If we're at 4,000 gold, which is kinda where we are today, and for some reason we go back to 2,000 gold, that coin's probably gonna be sneaky good and hold its value versus some of the other stuff.
Ben TheCoinGeek:Because anything you buy right now, you're buying at 4,000 gold. And unless we forget twenty four months ago, that would have been like double melt plus. And so I still think that there's an eventuality for the market moving the other way. And so just... This is just kind of a countervailing thing, I think.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Interesting. Alright. Well, I gotta say, I think folks should find those pilgrim quarters and keep them. I'm joking. No.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Not at all. Yeah. Pilgrim quarter and MS 70. That's what you want. I saw him being hawked on television the other day...
Tony Gryckiewicz:Night ago and it kinda made me shake my head. But anyways, I hate to say it, but I've kind of been won over on the $20.20 v 75 coins. I... It is a true modern rarity. They picked the arbitrary number of $19.45 in order to symbolize, of course, the the victory with World War two.
Tony Gryckiewicz:As a result, they created the coin that is very extremely low mintage in a series that is widely collected by collectors. And I think that if I could get my hands on one, I would I would I would I would do so. But maybe you just gotta wait and see in in moments in the market when things kinda soften up perhaps on them and maybe jump on them. Maybe now's the time to get a 2021 high relief of the bunking Bronco since they're kind of down for some reason after a high of being at 15,000. Now there, you can get one for 2,500 or so less than that in a 70.
Tony Gryckiewicz:So... But... Yeah. Anyway, that would be my thoughts in those. Guys, thanks for doing this.
Tony Gryckiewicz:We're at an hour and a half. This has been fun, and I will see you guys all at the next coin show. I don't know when we'll all be together again, but this has been fun. Thanks a lot for for doing it.
Mike Nottelmann:Thanks for Thanks having
Ben TheCoinGeek:for having us, Tony.
Tony Gryckiewicz:Yeah. Sure thing. See
Mike Nottelmann:you. Take care.
